Unpopular Rig-pinions

[Rock Bodom]

That reminds me. I've been thinking about this for awhile.

You know how music (rock, mostly metal) have gone more and more down-tuned, more bass heavy, kick drums, big bass, blast beats, all that? Like since Van Halen started dropping his E string to D or down tuning a half step? I kid. I kid. He wasn't the first.

Well my Rig-pinion is that this trend has loosely coincided with better speakers, better drivers, better amplification, better recording tools etc. Imagine trying to play Korn on an old stereo from the early 80's or even a boom box. Speakers we use today are so much better and can handle the lower frequencies better. Right? Or am I just making this up?

Was the equipment allowing for lower frequencies or were the lower frequencies pushing equipment to get better?

Initially I think it was the lower frequencies pushing the equipment. Vai tried the 7 string route with a model that never took off within his genre, Korn came up with a clever and massively popular twist on the idea and the boom really started.

Over time, everything has gotten more bass centric, not just metal though that's where you get more of the de-tuning as well. Pop, rap/hip-hop, electronic...more bass than ever. So I think to that extent de-tuned metal has been able to take advantage of the tech and that kind of helps perpetuate it as well.

Though back to the "unpopular opinions" theme...I don't think a lot of the gear trends are necessarily "better" today, but rather far more efficient. Honestly, most modern amps don't wow me, and many recordings to me sound way too sterile with bad eq. But the trade-off being astronomically easier than ever to get stuff recorded/collaborate, or carry much less gear to perform and still get pretty decent tones and much better reliability.

And hey, it wasn't Korn level low, but we listened to those old "de-tuned" Sabbath albums on those old stereos just fine!

 

[splatter]

There are LOTS of players on the web that recommend gear and rip on other gear.. swear by certain amps etc and have clips.... Problem is they cant play!!! Its like Phil Collen trying to be Yngwie. or same guys that try and play melodic and have no sense of phrasing or playing in key. I honestly cant understand how anyone would take any recommendation seriously? Check out my 10k amp... I know an A chord... but dont it sound great?

Doesnt matter how good any of us are cause there is 10 yr old Chinese girl whos better!! My point is before you become so strongly opinionated at least have SOME chops to back it up.

This, ^there are tons of people with lots of really high-end gear that can't play for squat. I remember years ago when I first got on guitar forums and saw the walls of expensive gear people had I thought "man these guys must be some monster players" then I heard some clips posted by a few or them.....

Me, I have a little high-end gear which I greatly enjoy because I am a tone snob.As for my playing ability I'm a guitar legend within my neighborhood

 

[Norton666]

Dude, I absolutely LOVED that tune! Great work!

or same guys that try and play melodic and have no sense of phrasing

That hit hard that sums me up as a player!

Aww man.. lemme clarify, Doesnt matter if guys can play or not and post clips.. Fun is fun and some guys have good tone regardless...Plus we are all learning and hopefully trying to get better every day.
What I am talking about is the guys who wont use this or that cause its not "up to my standards" and then you hear them play and go SERIOUSLY??

Haha no worries dude, was more self criticism as I've always struggled with phrasing, my chops are below:

 

[Beyond Black]

It seems to me that in many cases, the lower tuned and more bass heavy guitar has gotten, the drums (especially triggered bass drums) and bass are going the opposite direction, and getting tighter and brighter sounding.

 

[ClintN667]

For awhile I was really into downtuning. I was listening to a ton of doom metal and started really getting too crazy with it. Now I pretty much stay between E and D or occasional B standard.

 

[Zachman]

We all have them... so lets hear them!

(if you are emotionally affected by the opinions here, then please go outside for a walk and re-evaluate your priorities)

- Dimebags tone sounded like a fizz mess to me. The SS Randall sound was terrible especially when in the context of shredding pentatonics. That fizzy "insane on Line6 spider" sound never got me excited to hear in a mix, especially when he had access to 5051/6505, XXX, Mesa Rectos... Purists will say there is some ingenious reason behind it and it was all intentional but I don't buy that. Put me in a studio half cut with girls, drink, drugs etc and I'd probably dial in a tone I was happy with on a Roland Cube

- Dragging extremely high end gear to a small/medium venue has diminishing returns. Once your tone has been run through the desk and crappy PA system it probably has lost any of the nuances you hear at home, and not 1 single person in the whole venue would know if you switched to an AxeFX Std running direct.
It's like wine.... a 10$ bottle will be below average, a 50$ bottle will be great, and a 1000$ bottle is not worth the extra 950$ for the 0.000001% "better taste".

- People buy year, collect guitars, talk about gear, own a studio, tell others what to buy, critique others.... but you never hear their music. Lots of pictures of rigs, lots of "upgrading my rig" posts, lots of questions about setups.... but never any music? There is nothing wrong with this, but it's a weird phenomenon. If you have the best amp and tone.... go make some tunes!

- Dissing modern/djent/prog metal because it's homogeneous sounding is fair, but holding up 80s/90s bands as the benchmark is stupid. Those Axe-FX Djent kids are no different from what 60s boomers thought of you with your dig-multi FX and 20U Rack systems in 1991. It's better these kids are djenting and getting in to guitar, than doing nothing at all. Just because it doesn't fit within your narrow scope of acceptability... doesn't mean it's bad!

Now you go... and be as spicy as you wish!

My take on 'other' people's gear choices: ALL gear (to players) are mere tools to accomplish the goal of making music, while Collectors are another topic. Some players are hobbyists, others may be pros (Full time or Part-time), semi-pro, weekend warriors or just enthusiasts playing for their own enjoyment-- ALL with their own preferences and considerations.


My take on other people's opinions: Some say, Opinions are like A-holes... Everybody has one and...
I say, 'They're like orgasms... Mine is more important than theirs and I don't care if they have one'.

Couldn't care less-- unless I need to replicate it to a degree, then knowing what they were using is useful, but I don't have to finance it, set it up, program it, or move it up or down stairs, transport it to and from locations-- so, someone else's preferences or solutions (toward my end result, are ultimately irrelevant)

Having Great gear does NOT guarantee Great tone results-- It merely provides the potential for a range of results and options. Knowing how to utilize the gear from an Engineering/programming perspective, and then selecting appropriately is key.

If they're good but have crap tone, I won't listen for long, and if they suck I won't listen for long-- so how good their tone is becomes irrelevant

 

[Monkey Man]

It seems to me that in many cases, the lower tuned and more bass heavy guitar has gotten, the drums (especially triggered bass drums) and bass are going the opposite direction, and getting tighter and brighter sounding.

Indeed.

Around 50Hz.

Go below that and the kick's got nowhere to live.

You've made multiple very valid points regarding downtuning and its effects on the total mix.

You're too-kind, brother.

By the way, the problem with these sub-low tuned kickdrums is typically that they don't translate well to multiple types of stereos. You want your music to sound great on both highly optimized hifi sets, as well as clock radios, boom boxes, car audio and sub-optimal headsets.
That's one of the reasons why I don't own an Audix D6 or AKG D112 kickdrum mic. They're too scooped/pre-EQ'd IMO, making it either sound like a basketball hitting a gym floor or that plasticy uber-triggered sample tone with no meat on its bones.
I rather use my AT ATM-25, AKG D12 (yep, the coveted vintage one) or even an MD421. If your kick drum's energy peaks between 60 and 100~120Hz, it will be both heavy and audible even on smaller systems, without the woofiness (that occurs >200Hz).

Agreed.

Always loved the MD421 for bass amps, toms and kick, BTW; my all-time fave. It's got mojo, man.

 

[guitup too]

-Why

-are we

-doing this?

 

[Monkey Man]

We humans have a history of exploring and pushing boundaries, often with unforeseen consequences.

That's the best I can do, mate.

 

[sytharnia1560]

Weird I literally clicked on this thread as "cowboys from hell" was playing and was thinking to myself "god that really was an awful tone" then I read the OP's first sentence . I think it got a little better on vulgar

 

[skullfxr]

EVH is overrated. Playing, tone, etc. Yeah he was a pioneer, but we have come SOOO much farther.

Ozzy went to shit when Zakk took over guitar.

Jake E Lee gets nowhere near the recognition he deserves. Killer guy and player.

Fuck $4k amps.

 

[UltraGary]

G'damn this is an AWESOME thread! Boutique amp nonsense from guys who have no music to show....holding 80's stuff as a benchmark.... PRS being furniture....7string/downtuning silliness... I'm loving the hell out of this. Please carry on!>>>

 

[DrewJD82]

I think spending more than $1500 on a guitar is silly. Mainly because I’ve played so many for under a grand that have played and sounded killer. That goes out the window with vintage guitars, because if I had the cash, I’d LOVE to own a couple Strats from each decade and some early model LP Silverburst Customs.

I love the Van Hagar more than Van Halen and EVH’s tone on Balance and the tour following is my favorite VH tones. Could be because, while I grew up hearing VH and the premier of “Jump” on MTV is the first music video I ever remember seeing, I really didn’t start paying attention to VH until about a year or two after I started playing guitar and Balance had just come out. My dad’s roommate was listening to it a lot when I went to visit, hearing “Seventh Seal” blast through his entertainment system, I fell in love right away. Then “Feelin’”, all those flourishes and embellishments going into the chorus had a big effect on me back then.

Tube amps aren’t all that special. I’m a total Fractal fanboy, but even before then, I think after playing so many shows or sitting in studio sessions and seeing all the variables that go into changing a guitar tone once a mic is put in front of it, tube amps just stopped mattering as much to me. With modeling coming along the way it has and venues getting more and more strict with volume, I see tube amps as more of a thing to keep around just because you can. I’m not sure I’ll ever buy another one at this point.

 

[SpiderWars]

Sammy is/was 10x the musician as Dave.
I still prefer listening to Dave era VH.

Joe Bonamassa was a really good live show very early in his career when you didn't have to pay much to see him.
I'm not sure I'd bother with driving/parking/etc to see him for free now.

 

[Bronco]

Also, honestly, your cab, mic, and mic position matter more than the amp. Within reason, of course, but two high-gain amps will sound much more similar through the same signal chain than the same amp through different cabs and mics. As an example, these three tones are all the same head, but different cabs and mics.

I was going to bring this up. I shake my head that it took me 20 years (and thousands of $$$) to realize this.

 

[thenine]

The 80’s ruled. Period. If you missed it I’m sorry. There just was no other period like it. Almost everyone was into rock. Every town had a local guitar hero. All the clubs had live music. Every tune had a guitar solo. It was just the best era, no question.

 

[Racerxrated]

The 80’s ruled. Period. If you missed it I’m sorry. There just was no other period like it. Almost everyone was into rock. Every town had a local guitar hero. All the clubs had live music. Every tune had a guitar solo. It was just the best era, no question.

I’ll add, that in most major cities you couldn’t even get booked unless you had one guy who could really play. There were guys in cover bands that just came back from GIT and could play Yngwie note for note.
Very competitive band to band.

 

[skullfxr]

Tuning below B Standard is stoopid. And I am being generous.

Most of my 'metal' guitars are in D standard and I don't feel the need to go lower OTHER than tuning the 6th string down to C. For me D standard is the sweetspot.

PRS guitars are not inspiring to me. I agree with the furnature comment. I also think that excessive figuring on maple is overrated. I find 10-tops ugly.

I have had a Randall RG100ES a Century 200 and they were awesome. But I preferred my other stuff and made a lot of money off of them. They just aren't me. But they slaughtered for Dime.

 

[japetus]

The term "relic" should be replaced with "poser burst"

LOL, this is a good one. Relic'ed guitars are the goofiest shit ever. They never look natural, and what message is it even trying to send?

 

[rstites]

Around 50Hz.

Go below that and the kick's got nowhere to live.

I agree with your overall point, but just would note that the low E on a bass is 41 Hz and the low B on a 5-string bass is 31 Hz. So really, you're already below that 50 Hz range, and this is not an insignificant difference in the bass range. The kick drum is actually higher than these frequencies anyway, and it has harmonics that are far more critical than it's fundamental. In the end, you're stuck isolated it with sound quality (timbre) and spacial separation (stereo field location) regardless of tuning.