wanna hear eggie TOL 100 with zach's bradshaw rack?

[mkalei]

Great clean tone, PW! ...Guess my cuz is not as "out of his mind" as I once thought!

 

[SQUAREHEAD]

Have you tried the Peacemaker with the rack, Pat?

Keith

 

[mentoneman]

Awesome stuff, Pat! There were incredible and huge sounding tones on that clip. The monster's alive, Zach!

Pat, how would you rate G-Force's sound and other capabilities when comparing it to those other units (2290, 1210, PCM 80 and even H8000)?

-Jaakko

i still think the 2290 is the best sounding delay tc or any other company makes. it has a signature/vibe to it, and it's the purest and cleanest both in a/d conversion and fullness/realism of tone. it has this seriousness and studio quiet personality that's hard to describe unless you are sitting in front of the stereo field it creates. great chorus/modulation effects too. plus it has the 5 built-in effects loops/switching jacks for cool rack interconnectivity.

the 1210 is very solid and rich sounding and did the most on the clean tone i played to make it expand out spacially in the stereo field. the little brother tc chorus pedal sorta thins out the tone a little, but the 1210 preserves the foundation. i've played with one before at let me tell you, it makes a huge difference hearing it now in the bradshaw-wired rig!

lexi pcms are super deep, editable boxes, and compared to many tc and yamaha reverbs, the pcms can be more pronounced when the reverb hits you, and simultaneously as transparent and as dark or shimmering as you want them to be on the decay/tail, which seems to be their claim to fame. and they too have a realism more like the sound is actually moving away from you instead of being digitally manipulated. but programming them is not simple.

the h8000 in zach's rack was malfunctioning so i can't comment on it, but i've played with the H3000 for an hour in a studio with headphones, as well as tinkered with an eclipse. the pitch effects are world famous for a reason. they are the best in the H boxes. the verbs are killer. modulations and choruses are wild. i suppose if you had to have a "best" do it all box, the H8000 would be it, with it's 4 independent balanced analog ins/outs and firewire capabilities.

zach and bob did something really cool with the 8000 too; running it in parallel with the 1210 into mixer #1, and then taking the 8000's second stereo input and feeding the entire mixed signal from mixers 1 and 2 into it as the last device the stereo signal sees prior to feeding the wet power amps, thereby creating a way for you to stack delays into delays or basically any series combination of effects you can imagine!


the g-force as a stand alone box is capable of combining several blocks of high quality effects families together, (delay, reverb, chorus, pitch, filters, compressor, gate) and it allows you to route those effects within an internal digital mixer either in series, or in parallel with one another. so it lets you go nuts juggling combinations, which is a blessing and a curse if you're not careful.

but it's that internal digital mixer that i suspect robs a little bit of love from the tone, compared to running multiple high end effects independantly in parallel, and summing them via an external high quality mixer ala bradshaw mixer,

so i try to mimick the "real" way of doing it by running a parallel "dry" signal through the internal gforce mixer, which helps preserve the core amp tone, and as an added bonus, that method also minimized glitch time from patch to pacth when switching the gforce.

gofrce also has a wicked modifier section that allows you to create envelope/attack controlled ducking delays and reverbs with an ingenious slope window that controls the level of the effect at high, medium, and low input levels. you can also use internal LFOs to affect parameters in a more naturally random manner, and also lets you connect expression pedals to 8 parameters simultaneously; increase delay time and level while dropping high frequency cut and deepen tremolo wave, etc...

the gforce is great, and by comparison very easy to program, but imo it can't replace dedicated industry tested effects icons doing things the "real" way.

so for the best all in one stand alone box it would have to be the H8000, then a tie between the eclipse and the axe-fx (based on what i've heard online), then the g-force for sonic quality, which not incidentally is reflected in the prices of these units.

 

[mentoneman]

Great clean tone, PW! ...Guess my cuz is not as "out of his mind" as I once thought!

oh no, you got it right the first time...zachy is NUTZ!

but man does he know TONE.

 

[Jakem]

i still think the 2290 is the best sounding delay tc or any other company makes. it has a signature/vibe to it, and it's the purest and cleanest both in a/d conversion and fullness/realism of tone. it has this seriousness and studio quiet personality that's hard to describe unless you are sitting in front of the stereo field it creates. great chorus/modulation effects too. plus it has the 5 built-in effects loops/switching jacks for cool rack interconnectivity.

the 1210 is very solid and rich sounding and did the most on the clean tone i played to make it expand out spacially in the stereo field. the little brother tc chorus pedal sorta thins out the tone a little, but the 1210 preserves the foundation. i've played with one before at let me tell you, it makes a huge difference hearing it now in the bradshaw-wired rig!

lexi pcms are super deep, editable boxes, and compared to many tc and yamaha reverbs, the pcms can be more pronounced when the reverb hits you, and simultaneously as transparent and as dark or shimmering as you want them to be on the decay/tail, which seems to be their claim to fame. and they too have a realism more like the sound is actually moving away from you instead of being digitally manipulated. but programming them is not simple.

the h8000 in zach's rack was malfunctioning so i can't comment on it, but i've played with the H3000 for an hour in a studio with headphones, as well as tinkered with an eclipse. the pitch effects are world famous for a reason. they are the best in the H boxes. the verbs are killer. modulations and choruses are wild. i suppose if you had to have a "best" do it all box, the H8000 would be it, with it's 4 independent balanced analog ins/outs and firewire capabilities.

zach and bob did something really cool with the 8000 too; running it in parallel with the 1210 into mixer #1, and then taking the 8000's second stereo input and feeding the entire mixed signal from mixers 1 and 2 into it as the last device the stereo signal sees prior to feeding the wet power amps, thereby creating a way for you to stack delays into delays or basically any series combination of effects you can imagine!


the g-force as a stand alone box is capable of combining several blocks of high quality effects families together, (delay, reverb, chorus, pitch, filters, compressor, gate) and it allows you to route those effects within an internal digital mixer either in series, or in parallel with one another. so it lets you go nuts juggling combinations, which is a blessing and a curse if you're not careful.

but it's that internal digital mixer that i suspect robs a little bit of love from the tone, compared to running multiple high end effects independantly in parallel, and summing them via an external high quality mixer ala bradshaw mixer,

so i try to mimick the "real" way of doing it by running a parallel "dry" signal through the internal gforce mixer, which helps preserve the core amp tone, and as an added bonus, that method also minimized glitch time from patch to pacth when switching the gforce.

gofrce also has a wicked modifier section that allows you to create envelope/attack controlled ducking delays and reverbs with an ingenious slope window that controls the level of the effect at high, medium, and low input levels. you can also use internal LFOs to affect parameters in a more naturally random manner, and also lets you connect expression pedals to 8 parameters simultaneously; increase delay time and level while dropping high frequency cut and deepen tremolo wave, etc...

the gforce is great, and by comparison very easy to program, but imo it can't replace dedicated industry tested effects icons doing things the "real" way.

so for the best all in one stand alone box it would have to be the H8000, then a tie between the eclipse and the axe-fx (based on what i've heard online), then the g-force for sonic quality, which not incidentally is reflected in the prices of these units.

Thanks for the time you put in answering the question, Pat!

-Jaakko

 

[mentoneman]

Have you tried the Peacemaker with the rack, Pat?

Keith

i sold my PM a while back but i'd LOVE to hear that! i have no doubt it would be a jaw dropper tone.

 

[Anonymous]

Sounds phenomenal. Would have been better with tons of pentatonic tapping though. Please make a note of this.

Steve

LOL

i'm disappointed i didn't see you at tapper's anonymous last week. fell off the wagon?

Yup... I'm so ashamed...

Picking up a guitar pick with my right hand gives me tremors... I woke up Monday morning face down in the gutter... my right hand thumb still afixed to the top of my fretboard at the 15th fret... right hand index finger manically banging the high E at the 12th... close to OD... but I'm ok now. Remember: One day at a time... See you at the meeting next week...

Steve

 

[mentoneman]

Sounds phenomenal. Would have been better with tons of pentatonic tapping though. Please make a note of this.

Steve

LOL

i'm disappointed i didn't see you at tapper's anonymous last week. fell off the wagon?

Yup... I'm so ashamed...

Picking up a guitar pick with my right hand gives me tremors... I woke up Monday morning face down in the gutter... my right hand thumb still afixed to the top of my fretboard at the 15th fret... right hand index finger manically banging the high E at the 12th... close to OD... but I'm ok now. Remember: One day at a time... See you at the meeting next week...

Steve

i graduated bro bro.

and took up tap dancing.

 

[Anonymous]

Yup... I'm so ashamed...

Picking up a guitar pick with my right hand gives me tremors... I woke up Monday morning face down in the gutter... my right hand thumb still afixed to the top of my fretboard at the 15th fret... right hand index finger manically banging the high E at the 12th... close to OD... but I'm ok now. Remember: One day at a time... See you at the meeting next week...

Steve

i graduated bro bro.

and took up tap dancing.

Once an addict always an addict, my brother... Simply substituting a new addiction for your old one is no way to go through life... At least you're not river dancing though...

Steve

 

[mentoneman]

oh zachary...

 

[mentoneman]

Yup... I'm so ashamed...

Picking up a guitar pick with my right hand gives me tremors... I woke up Monday morning face down in the gutter... my right hand thumb still afixed to the top of my fretboard at the 15th fret... right hand index finger manically banging the high E at the 12th... close to OD... but I'm ok now. Remember: One day at a time... See you at the meeting next week...

Steve

i graduated bro bro.

and took up tap dancing.

Once an addict always an addict, my brother... Simply substituting a new addiction for your old one is no way to go through life... At least you're not river dancing though...

Steve

i'm getting better day by day

 

[bstaley]

That sounds great man. Do you know if the settings on the TC 1210 would work on a G-System? I love the chorusing sound you have there.

 

[mentoneman]

That sounds great man. Do you know if the settings on the TC 1210 would work on a G-System? I love the chorusing sound you have there.

there are rumours circulating that the newer tc g-force units and consequently the g-system stuff suffers from a lesser fidelity than the old g-force, and i can tell you that my older g-force does not sound as "analog" (for lack of better words) as either the 1210 or the 2290, but is on a fairly even keel with the M2000 sound quality.

the best choruses i've found in the g-force seem shallower and less earthy than the 1210 or 2290, but are still very high quality in a tc way....

 

[Zachman]

How this from a ANTI-rack guy at HC: Post# 997

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?p=26200655&posted=1#post26200655

Add:
D. The Soundman out front in a big arena has a bigger, more expensive rack than you do, and can add effects to your mix.

E. Big, expensive, racks = more things to cart around, plug in, and go wrong.
(Ask Zakk Wylde about that one....)

F. Big racks are great for bragging rights. (...If you have a wee willie!)

G. So you bought that $5k rack for how many effects? Three?

...That being said, I had a nice, big, rack full of expensive stuff that has sat in stoarge for the past 13 years. I went back to pedals because:

1) Less things to go wrong, and they're easier to diagnose and take off line.
....More practical.

2) Rather than a "Swiss Army Knife" rack effect that flanges, phases, slices, & dices, (each in a medicore way), one pedal can create a distinctive sound.

3) Putting them in line in front of your Amp is a bit more direct sounding than in a internal effects loop.

4) You can get too carried away with adding effects with a rack; your sound gets "wetter" & loses punch.

....Many of the reasons pedals became popular again. Rack stuff is great for the studio, but live playing can be rather raw.Big racks can be like a tit on a whale.

Fact: the audience is usually more interested in your stage clothes, guitar, and playing, than if you turned your reverb>flanger>phase patch on...

 

[Code001]

People on HC are retarded. Zach, if I'm ever in Hawaii, we need to meet up. I'm glad your rack is soon in your hands after all this time, too. It sounds phenomenal!

 

[Zachman]

People on HC are retarded. Zach, if I'm ever in Hawaii, we need to meet up. I'm glad your rack is soon in your hands after all this time, too. It sounds phenomenal!

Absolutely, IF you find yourself coming out for a vacation or whatever, please let me know. I'll show you around a bit.

Thank you, it's still not technically in my hands yet, as I am letting mentoneman play with it for a while, but it is done. YAY!!!!

 

[lordriffenstein]

Thanks for the clip Pat!! I must say, it´s the first time I have heard the 1210 sound good. I owned one and didn´t care for it

If this is the kind of stuff you want, you HAVE to run the processors in a mixer. I have slightly downsized my rack now but when I had a SPX90 doing pitch, Roland RSP550 doing chorus, GForce doing delay/reverb, it sounded HUGE. I just dropped the SPX90 but damn, I might have to put it back in the rack one of these days.

If you want to get a slightly-less money version of this behemoth get a Roland SDX330 for chorus, Yamaha SPX90 for pitch, TC D-Two for delays and a Lex MPX1 for reverbs. Run them into a decent mixer and you are nearly there.

I still need to dick around with the reverbs on the GForce, still not 100% happy so Pat, if you have any tricks...

 

[mentoneman]

as far as i'm concerned this guy is the king of the g-force:

http://www.simeonharris.co.uk/

his clips put the tc website clips to shame.

 

[Gainfreak]

as far as i'm concerned this guy is the king of the g-force:

http://www.simeonharris.co.uk/

his clips put the tc website clips to shame.

hell, I think your clips of the arion chorus,verb , a bit of delay and compression blow away the tc website clips.

 

[mentoneman]

as far as i'm concerned this guy is the king of the g-force:

http://www.simeonharris.co.uk/

his clips put the tc website clips to shame.

hell, I think your clips of the arion chorus,verb , a bit of delay and compression blow away the tc website clips.

thank you my tone brother!

brahski, your clips of the JVM are still the best i've heard from that amp. mark c. should send you his new modern for clippage as well!