One guitar, constant high end issue

[reignman454]

I know this is going to be a very hard question to answer with the crappy info I can supply, but some of you guys are literal experts at EVERYTHING gear related and might give me a clue.

Guitar: Ibanez RG prestige. It is basically your standard J-custom spec. Mahogany body, maple capped (thin), maple neck, rosewood fretboard. I replaced the tone zone in the bridge for an air-classic.

Issue: I love the guitar and have owned for longer than any other. Feels good. The mahogany is what I love. I get (somewhat) Gibson type tones and play it a lot in that way. Crunchy mid gain amp settings. Chords sound amazing. All things sound amazing. High E string will punish me often! Like just brutal ice pick a lot of the time. I’ve tried pickup height.

Is it because these guitars just really need to be played in the Steve Vai tonnes of gain and saturation tone with treble rolled off? Is there anything in the Ibanez wiring or anything that could be causing this? I thought it was me hitting e too hard and went up to 10s. No help. It’s the guitar not amp, as I have same issue on all 3 of my amps.

Unpopular opinion.... I've had Dimarzios (2) that delivered.... Everytime I've had a pickup go micro or be micro out of the box, you guessed it. Dimarzio.... We are talking too many to be unnoticeable.

For shiggles, throw a JB or a 59 in it... Solves your problem, you know what to do.



Also unpopular... lose the bleeds. The tonal equivalent of sweep the leg.

 

[Music&Chaos]

Only reason I always kept it so far is I am a volume roll off type of guy and thought it might get too dark when rolling back?

50s helps with keeping the highs there but not brittle when rolling back as well. makes the tone knob also way more useful IMO.

 

[SgtThump]

Only reason I always kept it so far is I am a volume roll off type of guy and thought it might get too dark when rolling back?

I’ve recently (past few years) started liking them for that reason.

 

[Mike Oxhuge]

Also, if you want to roll pickups try a Duncan custom 5

That's the pickup I've had the best results with trying to get a more LP tone out of strats

Yep, Custom 5 or DiMarzio Breed have worked well for me on Super Strats.

 

[Eazy-ESP]

Unpopular opinion.... I've had Dimarzios (2) that delivered.... Everytime I've had a pickup go micro or be micro out of the box, you guessed it. Dimarzio.... We are talking too many to be unnoticeable.

For shiggles, throw a JB or a 59 in it... Solves your problem, you know what to do.



Also unpopular... lose the bleeds. The tonal equivalent of sweep the leg.

Yeah I’ve had a microphonic dimarzio in the past too.

 

[Eazy-ESP]

Ok so I tried changing the connection to the tone pot for 50s, but I must be doing something wrong. It was as though it was woman tone.

I cut the treble bleed and noticed no improvement.

I recorded something to try and highlight the high piercing tone on e string (no fancy playing, just trying to get the issue to show) and when I recorded it and listened back it was all I could hear on the final higher blues lick thing. Listening back an hour later I can’t hear it anywhere near as much. I must get sensitive to it after playing.

I kept hitting the string to try and make it audible, because sometimes it comes through worse. It’s like instead of compressing when you attack, it is is piercing and hard. I feel embarrassed because listening back now it doesn’t seem as bad. Playing it can be painful and makes me not want to play leads on e.

I really think a different pickup is the next idea.

 

[Eazy-ESP]

 

[chumbucket]

It kinda sounds like the string is fretting out somewhere. What's the action like?
You may be able to replace the saddles and string blocks on that Edge trem to something higher quality too.

 

[Eazy-ESP]

It kinda sounds like the string is fretting out somewhere. What's the action like?
You may be able to replace the saddles and string blocks on that Edge trem to something higher quality too.

I added a bit more relief after that recording and it was slightly better. I remember even getting this guitar setup by a pro and he had the e too low. I feel this guitar can’t quite get perfect no matter what and I half blame that edge zero bridge. I notice on the new j customs they ditched it and went back to whatever that more standard edge trem is. I need to try one and see if it is juts my guitar or not. In fact the new j customs look really nice.

 

[The Polish Hammer]

I used to drive myself crazy in my younger earlier playing days thinking I was hearing things I wasn't supposed to.
I would spend ridiculous amounts of time adjusting and readjusting things to the point of feeling like I was going to go insane. Then one day I just got sick and tired of the "worry" of making things perfect and just picked up the guitar and played it.
Just remember that sound is a chemical reaction in the ear and brain and that the littlest thing can set your hearing off. Listen to your car stereo too loud one day and things will sound muddy and dull. Or perhaps sleep the wrong way on your ear and everything you hear the next day is bright and headache inducing.
Don't drive yourself crazy... Set the guitar up, check for fretting out when playing higher up the neck and make sure you don't have a buzz or pinging when bending. If all is good to go stop sweating it.
Don't be afraid to adjust the pole pieces and pickup. Lower the pole pieces a turn or two (easiest way to keep track is taking note of the position of the "slot" before you adjust it. Turn the pole piece(s) so the slot ends up looking how it started. Give it a turn clockwise, see how it sounds. Give it another, check how it sounds..You can always put it back to factory by keeping track of the turns of the "slot"... And a good way to get a thicker sound is lowering the pole pieces and raising the pickup a bit. It's all about what works for you.
I will usually adjust my pole pieces two turns lower and then bring the pickup up. It really fattens the sound. Nothing is set in stone... Just remember that.
Another thing to remember is you have a metal string rubbing and scraping against another metal object (fret), that too will throw off the sound when playing and bending. When playing higher up the neck it's always going to sound more trebly. And bending the string with the friction of metal to metal often makes it worse.
New strings, nice clean frets (corrosion and dull/dirty frets will produce crappy tone also). And a good setup with no buzzing and proper pickup adjustment should have you set...
And don't overthink or drive yourself crazy thinking things aren't right...

 

[Eazy-ESP]

I used to drive myself crazy in my younger earlier playing days thinking I was hearing things I wasn't supposed to.
I would spend ridiculous amounts of time adjusting and readjusting things to the point of feeling like I was going to go insane. Then one day I just got sick and tired of the "worry" of making things perfect and just picked up the guitar and played it.
Just remember that sound is a chemical reaction in the ear and brain and that the littlest thing can set your hearing off. Listen to your car stereo too loud one day and things will sound muddy and dull. Or perhaps sleep the wrong way on your ear and everything you hear the next day is bright and headache inducing.
Don't drive yourself crazy... Set the guitar up, check for fretting out when playing higher up the neck and make sure you don't have a buzz or pinging when bending. If all is good to go stop sweating it.
Don't be afraid to adjust the pole pieces and pickup. Lower the pole pieces a turn or two (easiest way to keep track is taking note of the position of the "slot" before you adjust it. Turn the pole piece(s) so the slot ends up looking how it started. Give it a turn clockwise, see how it sounds. Give it another, check how it sounds..You can always put it back to factory by keeping track of the turns of the "slot"... And a good way to get a thicker sound is lowering the pole pieces and raising the pickup a bit. It's all about what works for you.
I will usually adjust my pole pieces two turns lower and then bring the pickup up. It really fattens the sound. Nothing is set in stone... Just remember that.
Another thing to remember is you have a metal string rubbing and scraping against another metal object (fret), that too will throw off the sound when playing and bending. When playing higher up the neck it's always going to sound more trebly. And bending the string with the friction of metal to metal often makes it worse.
New strings, nice clean frets (corrosion and dull/dirty frets will produce crappy tone also). And a good setup with no buzzing and proper pickup adjustment should have you set...
And don't overthink or drive yourself crazy thinking things aren't right...

For sure. I’ve always actually been the opposite. So lazy with setups and changes because I’d prefer to just play. But now I’m realising I can get more out of my guitar if it is set right. Some good advice you’ve given.

Only thing with this particular issue is it actually hurts. It can be so piercing it is painful and I think I’ve developed much more sensitive ears now being over 40. I’m determined to make this a learning experience on all the potential adjustments I can make.

 

[The Polish Hammer]

For sure. I’ve always actually been the opposite. So lazy with setups and changes because I’d prefer to just play. But now I’m realising I can get more out of my guitar if it is set right. Some good advice you’ve given.

Only thing with this particular issue is it actually hurts. It can be so piercing it is painful and I think I’ve developed much more sensitive ears now being over 40. I’m determined to make this a learning experience on all the potential adjustments I can make.

Turn down the Treble on the amp... Prollem solved. Lol

 

[DrewJD82]

For sure I like a bright tone. I in fact always want a cutting tone and love mids. I’m more like Angus than I am Vai. But this is like an uncomfortable sound rather than cutting in a mix. It’s over powering and piercing when I try for lead work on the high e especially above 12th fret. Like just not a good sound.

Man, Vai is like, all mids. I was a bit dumbfounded by the first post as I wouldn’t associate anything Vai’s done with lots of distortion or top end, the Evolution pickup is so midrangey I can’t stand it for anything but Vai-type tones.

This is my JEM w/ the Evolutions into a Carvin Legacy model boosted with a DS-1, basically Vai’s late 90’s/early 00’s rig, no unusual settings, it’s just finding the right balance between the Treble and Presence.



It was touched on earlier but it’s worth repeating; the same frequencies that can get REALLY fucking annoying in isolation are the exact ones needed to cut through cymbals and vocals in a mix and often times that top end guitarist like to hack off because it sounds thin, or even shitty and ear piercing in the room.

If you can add an EQ somewhere, you can hack off a lot above 3kHz if you’re just playing solo and it’ll probably be a bit more appealing. It’ll definitely soften that plinky sound in the clip you posted.

 

[Greazygeo]

Only reason I always kept it so far is I am a volume roll off type of guy and thought it might get too dark when rolling back?

I am a volume knob guy as well. It doesn’t, it works as it is supposed to. All four of my Ibanez got them removed pretty much right away. The RG550 was unbearable until I yanked it out if there.

 

[DrewJD82]

Ugh, I have the treble bleed cap on a push/pull on my JEM, if I can run home for lunch I’ll make a clip of it.

It IS there to retain top end when rolling the volume knob down and it does work exactly like that.

 

[Eazy-ESP]

Man, Vai is like, all mids. I was a bit dumbfounded by the first post as I wouldn’t associate anything Vai’s done with lots of distortion or top end, the Evolution pickup is so midrangey I can’t stand it for anything but Vai-type tones.

This is my JEM w/ the Evolutions into a Carvin Legacy model boosted with a DS-1, basically Vai’s late 90’s/early 00’s rig, no unusual settings, it’s just finding the right balance between the Treble and Presence.



It was touched on earlier but it’s worth repeating; the same frequencies that can get REALLY fucking annoying in isolation are the exact ones needed to cut through cymbals and vocals in a mix and often times that top end guitarist like to hack off because it sounds thin, or even shitty and ear piercing in the room.

If you can add an EQ somewhere, you can hack off a lot above 3kHz if you’re just playing solo and it’ll probably be a bit more appealing. It’ll definitely soften that plinky sound in the clip you posted.

That sounds really awesome. But I think the issue is I like the feel of modern guitars like RG, but I like classic amp tones. I basically dial it up more like AC/DC or something. So I think that high end is looking for something like a DS1 to get softened up by. But I end up trying for souped up crunch and then fighting the inevitable.

 

[Music&Chaos]

Yep, Custom 5 or DiMarzio Breed have worked well for me on Super Strats.

I have a breed installed and it doesn't get close to an LP sound on my guitar.

I think I would swap in a set of Session Pro/Road Pro if I wanted a fatter sound in a super strat.

Makes the top end thicker/richer and not so thin.

When I first got an LP, I said - that's the sound I have been trying to get on other guitars.

Only the LP will sound that way and some don't, but we all love that thick seraing lead so much - I understand trying to replicate it with another guitar as much as possible.

 

[Music&Chaos]

Ok so I tried changing the connection to the tone pot for 50s, but I must be doing something wrong. It was as though it was woman tone.

I cut the treble bleed and noticed no improvement.

I recorded something to try and highlight the high piercing tone on e string (no fancy playing, just trying to get the issue to show) and when I recorded it and listened back it was all I could hear on the final higher blues lick thing. Listening back an hour later I can’t hear it anywhere near as much. I must get sensitive to it after playing.

I kept hitting the string to try and make it audible, because sometimes it comes through worse. It’s like instead of compressing when you attack, it is is piercing and hard. I feel embarrassed because listening back now it doesn’t seem as bad. Playing it can be painful and makes me not want to play leads on e.

I really think a different pickup is the next idea.

After clipping the bleed out, you say you can't hear a difference? It is minute for some more than others but definitely there. It is not much, just a step toward a sweeter, fuller top end. You then recorded it after clipping it out and state it is harder to hear/catch? Also, the setup thing will make it worse. Changing strings helped me get out the high e clack further, as it was on all of my guitars a bit until I swapped from my Daddarios. SOme of them, I like that extra edge, but most I do not.

It could also just be the guitar but man, you have a trash cap installed as well, which makes top end strident to me. People say you cannot hear the difference in caps - let them be deaf - that's fine. I have taken a guitar I love, and popped in different caps and it turned the tone into something I disliked. Almost anything will sound better than the cheap 2 cent trash they put in because 'no one can hear it is trash'.

If you swapped your wiring to 50s and the tone was as if your tone knob was activated, you did something wrong.