why do 80s heroes forget how to solo

[Digital Jams]

Oh I would buy me a Billy Bogner solo disk

 

[bigdaddyd]

i was reading over this and there was a lot of wailing on EVH, now, yes i agree he's in a bad way now and just seems to be taking care of his own van halen covers band but...

and hear me out..

Something was niggling me over the criticism he was getting..

now i think this albums been deleted (they hated it so much) but if i remember rightly, in fact i dont need to because i listened to it today, when he did van halen III he did try to shake things up a little and do something different and a little experimental.

I'm not defending this album, or gary cherone wanting to be freddy mercury in it, and i'm not saying every track was solid gold, because it was far from that. but there were a few standout moments on there when i thought he was really trying and succeeding. he's was taking a different direction and playing with his sound and chops and it was really good.

"without you" is note worthy, as is "josephina". and i even quite liked "how many say I". the album may not have worked, but it wasn't stale.

and what happened? they got hammered for it, people wanted them to stick to what they'd always done, and now we're kind of bitching because they won't push things anymore..

No offense, but as a hardcore VH and Extreme fan my take on VH III is this. EVH was done and had been listening to Extreme and Nuno. Without You is a ridiculous attempt at Cupid's Dead. Cue them up at the same time and you can see it. It is subtle, but only because Without You is just that bad. Granted Nuno started as an EVH clone, but them far surpassed him. It was no accident that EVH snagged Gary. As for Gary trying to be Freddy, that is nuts. The only person Gary was trying to be on VH III was SAMMY...and that was all EVH's doing. You can tell Gary wasn't singing like himself. Any Extreme fan will tell you that, and Gary IS a Freddy fan. When he sings like himself, he does sing like Freddy. That album failed BECAUSE of EVH and no one putting him in check.

 

[tekbow]

i was reading over this and there was a lot of wailing on EVH, now, yes i agree he's in a bad way now and just seems to be taking care of his own van halen covers band but...

and hear me out..

Something was niggling me over the criticism he was getting..

now i think this albums been deleted (they hated it so much) but if i remember rightly, in fact i dont need to because i listened to it today, when he did van halen III he did try to shake things up a little and do something different and a little experimental.

I'm not defending this album, or gary cherone wanting to be freddy mercury in it, and i'm not saying every track was solid gold, because it was far from that. but there were a few standout moments on there when i thought he was really trying and succeeding. he's was taking a different direction and playing with his sound and chops and it was really good.

"without you" is note worthy, as is "josephina". and i even quite liked "how many say I". the album may not have worked, but it wasn't stale.

and what happened? they got hammered for it, people wanted them to stick to what they'd always done, and now we're kind of bitching because they won't push things anymore..

No offense, but as a hardcore VH and Extreme fan my take on VH III is this. EVH was done and had been listening to Extreme and Nuno. Without You is a ridiculous attempt at Cupid's Dead. Cue them up at the same time and you can see it. It is subtle, but only because Without You is just that bad. Granted Nuno started as an EVH clone, but them far surpassed him. It was no accident that EVH snagged Gary. As for Gary trying to be Freddy, that is nuts. The only person Gary was trying to be on VH III was SAMMY...and that was all EVH's doing. You can tell Gary wasn't singing like himself. Any Extreme fan will tell you that, and Gary IS a Freddy fan. When he sings like himself, he does sing like Freddy. That album failed BECAUSE of EVH and no one putting him in check.

also a fan of both for many years, and yeah, without you's rythym chops were nunoesque, and i agree nuno now is a much fresher sounding guitarist after his years in the business. i disagree without you was awful, not so keen on gary's singing in it, but i thought there was nice work in that one. the freddy comment was glib, but as you say you're self the guy sounds like freddy and i wonder if it wasn't more to do with Gary singing up to that VH sound thaan eddie pushing him.

the last comment there sums it up, one man's flight of ego is another man's attempt to do something different. and your viewpoint is just as valid as mine, but i do stand by my position of, he tried to do something experimental and different and got wailed on because he didn't ssound like he always did, and now we're wailing on him because he sounds exactly like he always did like he's got lazy.

 

[bigdaddyd]

i was reading over this and there was a lot of wailing on EVH, now, yes i agree he's in a bad way now and just seems to be taking care of his own van halen covers band but...

and hear me out..

Something was niggling me over the criticism he was getting..

now i think this albums been deleted (they hated it so much) but if i remember rightly, in fact i dont need to because i listened to it today, when he did van halen III he did try to shake things up a little and do something different and a little experimental.

I'm not defending this album, or gary cherone wanting to be freddy mercury in it, and i'm not saying every track was solid gold, because it was far from that. but there were a few standout moments on there when i thought he was really trying and succeeding. he's was taking a different direction and playing with his sound and chops and it was really good.

"without you" is note worthy, as is "josephina". and i even quite liked "how many say I". the album may not have worked, but it wasn't stale.

and what happened? they got hammered for it, people wanted them to stick to what they'd always done, and now we're kind of bitching because they won't push things anymore..

No offense, but as a hardcore VH and Extreme fan my take on VH III is this. EVH was done and had been listening to Extreme and Nuno. Without You is a ridiculous attempt at Cupid's Dead. Cue them up at the same time and you can see it. It is subtle, but only because Without You is just that bad. Granted Nuno started as an EVH clone, but them far surpassed him. It was no accident that EVH snagged Gary. As for Gary trying to be Freddy, that is nuts. The only person Gary was trying to be on VH III was SAMMY...and that was all EVH's doing. You can tell Gary wasn't singing like himself. Any Extreme fan will tell you that, and Gary IS a Freddy fan. When he sings like himself, he does sing like Freddy. That album failed BECAUSE of EVH and no one putting him in check.

also a fan of both for many years, and yeah, without you's rythym chops were nunoesque, and i agree nuno now is a much fresher sounding guitarist after his years in the business. i disagree without you was awful, not so keen on gary's singing in it, but i thought there was nice work in that one. the freddy comment was glib, but as you say you're self the guy sounds like freddy and i wonder if it wasn't more to do with Gary singing up to that VH sound thaan eddie pushing him.

the last comment there sums it up, one man's flight of ego is another man's attempt to do something different. and your viewpoint is just as valid as mine, but i do stand by my position of, he tried to do something experimental and different and got wailed on because he didn't ssound like he always did, and now we're wailing on him because he sounds exactly like he always did like he's got lazy.

I am not discrediting your viewpoint. I am just offering another. It is, however, fact that EVH rules the VH camp and there is no challenge to his rule, especially now that Roth and Hagar are gone. As for Gary's vocals, you will know what I am saying by checking out anything he did post VH III. As soon as he got away from EVH he started singing like himself again. He doesn't sing like Freddy. He is influenced by him. If you are an Extreme fan as you say, you know they are heavily influenced by QUEEN. Go listen to the last Extreme disc...Saudades De Rock. Gary sounds nothing like he did on VH III, because he didn't have EVH forcing him to. Don't forget, he was even living at EVH's house during the recording of that disc...everything he did was dependent on EVH.

 

[tekbow]

I am not discrediting your viewpoint.

i know you're not man

 

[AndyK]

If only EVH would drag out the "stock" Marshall, variac, tape delay, and whatever else he used on VH 1 -4, and just prove everyone wrong by ripping through a few new tunes, his entire fanbase would be thrilled.

But he's NOT going to do that, and I am still going to buy any new VH/Roth album with new material!

 

[RedRider]

You also have to take into account the fact that some of the guys that have fallen off so much are the ones who have been put through the freekin RINGER by the music industry. The bigger they were, the more crap they had to put up with, and the love of music is that much further away as the industry demands are what comes to the forefront. THe guys that only have mild success arent bent by the industry even SLIGHTLY as much as the big names. Do you really think that paul gilbert, Steve Vai, all the guys who are still emotionally invested are being yanked left and right even 5% as much as EVH?? How many years has EVH spent with the industry churning and burning just trying to squeeze everything they can out of him??

Think about your own job....if you had your boss and the entire company you work for on your ass 25 hours a day how much would you love your job....I can TOTALLY understand why Eddie completely burnt himself out...and at this point is somewhat going through the motions...as EVERYTHING he does will have industry spin on it...

 

[mentoneman]

if vh would have put out a solo record of his fabled practice cassette tapes at the height of his popularity and skill, he would have sold a trillion of those. he'd probably still make a fortune releasing something like that on itunes, and it would represent his peak years as a player and would remind the fans what VH was all about.

i'd love a compilation of the best of early vh live board recordings and studio demos as well. i have a disc called studio daze which is kind of like that but i'm sure there are better out there. i have a copy of VH live at bogarts, a show they did in 76 in san bernardino, and it has some of the best covers done vh style, sweet emotion, walk away, waiting for the bus....and eddie is just blazing with killer tone.

there was a happiness and confidence and fluidity in the playing, like yngwie on live alcatrazz, where they new they ruled and mindblowing lines poured out of them effortlessly. lynch had that in irvine on the under lock and key show i saw. and honestly i never thought lynch was as seasoned musically as vh or yngwie but he had fire and tone, but that night he was operating on another level. huge tone and amazing improvisational lines over the stock solos.

 

[stefvorcide]

You also have to take into account the fact that some of the guys that have fallen off so much are the ones who have been put through the freekin RINGER by the music industry. The bigger they were, the more crap they had to put up with, and the love of music is that much further away as the industry demands are what comes to the forefront. THe guys that only have mild success arent bent by the industry even SLIGHTLY as much as the big names. Do you really think that paul gilbert, Steve Vai, all the guys who are still emotionally invested are being yanked left and right even 5% as much as EVH?? How many years has EVH spent with the industry churning and burning just trying to squeeze everything they can out of him??

Think about your own job....if you had your boss and the entire company you work for on your ass 25 hours a day how much would you love your job....I can TOTALLY understand why Eddie completely burnt himself out...and at this point is somewhat going through the motions...as EVERYTHING he does will have industry spin on it...

This. that's why he started drinkin' and such. it's proven fact that many workaholics will drink more...

 

[rafterman1969]

Many players (back in the 60's, 70's, and 80's) would spend much of their time practicing and performing "under the influence". What happens is you develop a a sense of what is referred to as "state dependent learning". You do best that which you learned in the same frame of mind. I'm sure many of you have said in jest; "He sounded better when he was doing the drugs..." For some players this is definitely the case.

Case in point: Joe Perry.
Post-rehab Joe Perry stated; "I wish I could remember what it was I use to know". Any veteran Aerosmith fans will recall the live gigs back in 1975, when Joe Perry was in prime playing condition. The 1975 concert in Central Park / King Biscuit Flower Hour recordings are among the best live rock recordings ever produced. Many have postulated that Joe Perry didn't play the leads on "Train Kept' A Rollin". Well, he did! His playing was in an evolutionary process for sure. By the time the "Rocks" tour was over, he went from being a lucid staccato-styled lead player to relying more on double-stops, unison bending, and "hammer-drills". He used these techniques in his early playing for sure - but eventually these became his forte. "Pumping" the rhythm with "Chuck Berry" style licks is cool; but I preferred it when he used it to "pepper" the songs; not "baste" them with it. It's like he's turned into this American version of Keith Richards?

Pat Travers lives locally to us. While Pat is still an awesome player - IMO he played a lot better when he was "tuned-in". I've seen him live more times than I can count, and each time is great time! I'm not saying that drugs and booze make you a better player at all... I am saying that you do best that which you learned while in the same frame of mind.


I'm experiencing this same phenomenon myself. People have said to me; "You played a lot better when you were drinking..." Not a very cool thing to say - but it's true nonetheless. I may never play like I did when I was "tuned-in", and I can accept that... Maybe I'll learn to play steel guitar?

 

[Anonymous]

if vh would have put out a solo record of his fabled practice cassette tapes at the height of his popularity and skill, he would have sold a trillion of those. he'd probably still make a fortune releasing something like that on itunes, and it would represent his peak years as a player and would remind the fans what VH was all about.

My opinion is, regardless of whether he released it at the peak of his abilities or not, an EVH solo record would have sucked balls. Eddie writes music for people to sing over - that is what he's great at. Also, Eddie needs a foil like DLR to be at his best. That is where the magic is. When left to his own devices, or working with cheeseball singers, his material sucks balls. One of the smartest things he ever did was not releasing a solo instrumental album even though we were all clamoring for it. The only success would have been financial...

Steve

 

[Anonymous]

Many have postulated that Joe Perry didn't play the leads on "Train Kept' A Rollin". Well, he did!

Joe Perry did not play those leads. They were played by Steve Hunter and Dick Wagner. They also played the leads on "Same Old Song and Dance". If you can't hear their unique playing on those solos and think Perry played 'em, you're deaf...

Steve

 

[rafterman1969]

Many have postulated that Joe Perry didn't play the leads on "Train Kept' A Rollin". Well, he did!

Joe Perry did not play those leads. They were played by Steve Hunter and Dick Wagner. They also played the leads on "Same Old Song and Dance". If you can't hear their unique playing on those solos and think Perry played 'em, you're deaf...

Steve

So - you may be right. The fact remains that Joe was nailing those licks in 75, and there's video to prove it.

While there is some great lead playing there - I wouldn't describe it as "unique" at all. I refer you to UFO's "Obsession" album... That's unique! If there's any Aerosmith lead breaks that I'd describe as "unique", it would be the lead work on "Home Tonight". You know the the tune... Most of the pointy-top Charvel players out of LA were copying (attempting to copy) the "Aerosmith sound" in the 1980's... You remember!

 

[MisterBulbous]

if vh would have put out a solo record of his fabled practice cassette tapes at the height of his popularity and skill, he would have sold a trillion of those. he'd probably still make a fortune releasing something like that on itunes, and it would represent his peak years as a player and would remind the fans what VH was all about.

My opinion is, regardless of whether he released it at the peak of his abilities or not, an EVH solo record would have sucked balls. Eddie writes music for people to sing over - that is what he's great at. Also, Eddie needs a foil like DLR to be at his best. That is where the magic is. When left to his own devices, or working with cheeseball singers, his material sucks balls. One of the smartest things he ever did was not releasing a solo instrumental album even though we were all clamoring for it. The only success would have been financial...

Steve

Remember that stuff he did for the "wild life" soundtrack? (the 2nd-rate Fastimes at Ridgemont High movie)?. Eddie was very proud of it, but it was mostly just random noodling. That was right about the time when eddie started to go south fast, but it also coincided with the time where he had reached the pinnacle of popularity. I remember his live guest appearances with Scandal, MIchael Jackson, and John Waite (I think). Some of it is painful to listen to - as I have a few old bootlegs...To Eddie's credit, he often said an instrumental album from him would end up being identical to what he does with the band, including the same members.

 

[Anonymous]

So - you may be right. The fact remains that Joe was nailing those licks in 75, and there's video to prove it.

I'm sure he was forced to learn it - the stuff was burning - Hunter and Wagner are great players. Can you point me to the videos of him playing the "Train Kept A'Rollin"" solo accurately live in '75? I'm not doubting, would just like to hear it because I saw Aerosmith back then and I don't recall him playing it like that, although, I will admit he was able to cop that solo more closely later in his career.. In the mid-late '70s, I remember myself and a lot of my friends being bummed at Aerosmith's live performances because they played stuff so differently from the records...

While there is some great lead playing there - I wouldn't describe it as "unique" at all.

Welll... I dunno... I find Steve Hunter and Dick Wagner's playing to be VERY recognizable and unique - if you listen to the Lou Reed Live album, the Alice Cooper stuff they played on, I can pick there playing out immediately. I'd say it's unique if I can recognize a players voice...

I refer you to UFO's "Obsession" album... That's unique!

No argument there...

If there's any Aerosmith lead breaks that I'd describe as "unique", it would be the lead work on "Home Tonight". You know the the tune... Most of the pointy-top Charvel players out of LA were copying (attempting to copy) the "Aerosmith sound" in the 1980's... You remember!

I hate that song, and as a, 80s misfit, I don't remember anyone in Hollywood trying to cop "Home Tonight" lead work or sound. Most of the dudes I know were trying to sound/play like EVH and look like Heather Locklear...

Steve

 

[70strathead]

The last few Uli cd's are amazing. I caught him twice the last time he toured....the show in Pittsburgh was unreal, totally on fire! The band was killer as well. Under a Dark Sky has some great stuff on it, Metamorphosis is mind blowing.

I think that many guys end up working on songwriting instead of working on scales for hours on end.

Lynch seems like the player that when he works things out comes up with cool stuff. Probably in the mindset of just go for it and see what happens....sometimes you fall on your face, other times land on your feet. If you like his old playing there are always cd's to listen.

i wouldn't mind seeing uli on fire.

all i remember seeing recently is weird hippy stuff with the 30 fret guitar playing sky church yoga music or an awkward jam with the scorpions. but ant too said uli still has it so i'm sure he can still bust some sails of charon without wetting his pants.

Fun post Pat and dug your Lane improv clip! I wouldn't really put Uli in the 80's catagory for starters, he was playing Brahms and Beethoven lines weaved in with tasty blues back in the 70's. But I have an interesting perspective on the topic because I got to see Warren D ( probably my fav 80's rock guitarist) do an improv jam with uli on All along the watchtower and it was like the protege following the mentor. After about 4 minutes of trading off solos warren was repeating licks while Uli was telling stories and ceating paeks and valleys, melodies harmonies and didnt repeat one note..the longer the jam went the more expressive Uli got and Warren just stepped back and shook his head. Uli hasnt lost it, but I wish he would go back to playing a strat because im not a fam of tha shy guitar tone. Also, as Greazyeo said, his last two releases are nothing less than brilliant composition and performance wise. Yngwie hasnt put anything out thats creative since 97, he doesnt care anymore, has his own label, wife runs the show, but IMO nobody on the planet can play a stratocaster with so much conviction, precision and intensity as YJM to this day, he's still a tremendous force...in that heavy rock context. Your comments are fricken hilarious though! lol

 

[shredhead7]

The last few Uli cd's are amazing. I caught him twice the last time he toured....the show in Pittsburgh was unreal, totally on fire! The band was killer as well. Under a Dark Sky has some great stuff on it, Metamorphosis is mind blowing.

I think that many guys end up working on songwriting instead of working on scales for hours on end.

Lynch seems like the player that when he works things out comes up with cool stuff. Probably in the mindset of just go for it and see what happens....sometimes you fall on your face, other times land on your feet. If you like his old playing there are always cd's to listen.

i wouldn't mind seeing uli on fire.

all i remember seeing recently is weird hippy stuff with the 30 fret guitar playing sky church yoga music or an awkward jam with the scorpions. but ant too said uli still has it so i'm sure he can still bust some sails of charon without wetting his pants.

Fun post Pat and dug your Lane improv clip! I wouldn't really put Uli in the 80's catagory for starters, he was playing Brahms and Beethoven lines weaved in with tasty blues back in the 70's. But I have an interesting perspective on the topic because I got to see Warren D ( probably my fav 80's rock guitarist) do an improv jam with uli on All along the watchtower and it was like the protege following the mentor. After about 4 minutes of trading off solos warren was repeating licks while Uli was telling stories and ceating paeks and valleys, melodies harmonies and didnt repeat one note..the longer the jam went the more expressive Uli got and Warren just stepped back and shook his head. Uli hasnt lost it, but I wish he would go back to playing a strat because im not a fam of tha shy guitar tone. Also, as Greazyeo said, his last two releases are nothing less than brilliant composition and performance wise.

I have to agree with the Uli comments here. He is one of the few guys that have kept at it and gotten better. Sure his music has changed considerably, moving towards being an electric violin player vs a guitar player, but he still has his chops and then some. As mentioned above, his last two releases are amazing guitar works of art. I personally can't stand the lyrics and the vocal melodies, as they are really corny, but hey I couldn't stand most of the 80's songs either.

As to Lynch, he's the reason I started playing so he gets a pass from me. His idol is Jeff Beck. He states over and over how he is so into him and how Jeff keeps growing and he would love to be able to play like that. He also is trying to break out of his shell and transform himself into a player similar to that. While most players would practice that at home and not explore it on the stage, Lynch takes those chances live and you hear him fall on his face. I assure you that he knows when he is falling and when he is hitting gold. I give the guy props for being a major hero to a lot of players and going out there and taking those chances.

FWIW I saw him in 05, which is a while ago now, but he was amazing. He played some of the solos similarly, but the rest were improved and were great.

 

[rafterman1969]

So - you may be right. The fact remains that Joe was nailing those licks in 75, and there's video to prove it.

I'm sure he was forced to learn it - the stuff was burning - Hunter and Wagner are great players. Can you point me to the videos of him playing the "Train Kept A'Rollin"" solo accurately live in '75? I'm not doubting, would just like to hear it because I saw Aerosmith back then and I don't recall him playing it like that, although, I will admit he was able to cop that solo more closely later in his career.. In the mid-late '70s, I remember myself and a lot of my friends being bummed at Aerosmith's live performances because they played stuff so differently from the records...

While there is some great lead playing there - I wouldn't describe it as "unique" at all.

Welll... I dunno... I find Steve Hunter and Dick Wagner's playing to be VERY recognizable and unique - if you listen to the Lou Reed Live album, the Alice Cooper stuff they played on, I can pick there playing out immediately. I'd say it's unique if I can recognize a players voice...

I refer you to UFO's "Obsession" album... That's unique!

No argument there...

If there's any Aerosmith lead breaks that I'd describe as "unique", it would be the lead work on "Home Tonight". You know the the tune... Most of the pointy-top Charvel players out of LA were copying (attempting to copy) the "Aerosmith sound" in the 1980's... You remember!

I hate that song, and as a, 80s misfit, I don't remember anyone in Hollywood trying to cop "Home Tonight" lead work or sound. Most of the dudes I know were trying to sound/play like EVH and look like Heather Locklear...

Steve

Joe Perry claims he played a lap-steel guitar on HT. I absolutely love the lead tone he's (someone's) getting... No effects - just guitar and one very loud amp! I really thought that Motley Crue's "Home Sweet Home" was inspired by "Home Tonight". I won't even go into Ratt's "OOTC" release - but I do love me some "Wanted Man" action!

It's funny, because as much as I liked Aerosmith, I once told my best friend Mark; "I don't think Joe Perry is playing the lead on "TKAR..." I figured it was Brad Whitford? After watching Aerosmith "Video Scrapbook", and listening to the bootleg entitled "Look Homeward Angel" (1975 concert in Central Park / King Biscuit Flower Hour simulcast), I was forced to retract my opinion. Or at least research it more... Thanks for the info btw... I haven't seen the "Scrapbook" video in a long time, but I do have the recordings from the Central Park concert. The intro to SOS still gives me "goose-bumps"! These are IMO the best live recordings of Aerosmith for that era. "Somebody" and "Write Me A Letter" are among the highlights for sure.

Here are some cuts from the Central park show... "Train" wan't included in the download?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXIYMqM_ZLo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82XXPlU4ivU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQUqiUVJ

Here are some videos from Aerosmith's "Video Scrapbook":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNF2uqaa ... re=related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GB1xZLH ... re=related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVc3tjkg ... re=related

I'm going to see if my "Sweet Emotions" (Which is mostly the 75 Central Park concert) bootleg has the Central Park concert version of "Train" on it, as a couple of cuts were substituted...? "SE" was one of them.

Here's a link to the program for the gig:
http://www.wolfgangsvault.com/aerosmith ... 50617.html

 

[mentoneman]

if vh would have put out a solo record of his fabled practice cassette tapes at the height of his popularity and skill, he would have sold a trillion of those. he'd probably still make a fortune releasing something like that on itunes, and it would represent his peak years as a player and would remind the fans what VH was all about.

My opinion is, regardless of whether he released it at the peak of his abilities or not, an EVH solo record would have sucked balls. Eddie writes music for people to sing over - that is what he's great at. Also, Eddie needs a foil like DLR to be at his best. That is where the magic is. When left to his own devices, or working with cheeseball singers, his material sucks balls. One of the smartest things he ever did was not releasing a solo instrumental album even though we were all clamoring for it. The only success would have been financial...

Steve

you might be right. i just imagined a closet full of practice tapes and late night instrumental jams that could have yielded some hidden treasures. early vh songs and solos were so full of individuality and character. you could look forward to another innovative guitar moment on almost every song.

now i can pretty much tell you what yngwie and eddie will play on every solo before i even hear it.

 

[mentoneman]

Many players (back in the 60's, 70's, and 80's) would spend much of their time practicing and performing "under the influence". What happens is you develop a a sense of what is referred to as "state dependent learning". You do best that which you learned in the same frame of mind. I'm sure many of you have said in jest; "He sounded better when he was doing the drugs..." For some players this is definitely the case.

C:

interesting post.

i can relate. zero inhibitions cause some pretty dramatic music. in this politically correct age even cookie monster growlers have to growl a certain way or else they aren't as cool as the "real" cookie monster screamo-"ists".