Wizard Amps: Guys swear by them, clips don't do justice. Are there any clips - even of other amps - that come close?

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Clips clips clips......

This thread is the BEST example of why clips are incredibly limiting AND can be very misleading. I know...it's the only way to TRY and judge what a piece of gear can do....but, when the best attribute of an amplifier is what it does/how it sounds cranked, clearly there's no chance that will EVER translate on any clip, ever.

The best way I can describe a Wizard is this...if you have experience with an amp that when pushed, sounds incredible BECAUSE of the power section, then that's what a Wizard does. Old Superleads, 2203s, HiWatts, Coliseums, Triple Rectos, SLOs, VHT/Fryettes all have this great 'bloom' that have to be experienced live to really get it. Some amps like EVH stuff just get loud but don't have that 'thing' Wizards and others have.

The Wizard tone to me is mostly HiWatt with 'some' Marshall sprinkled in. Great feel, clarity like other great amps...but that power section is incredible and not many amps can match that 3D 'bloom' they seem to have when turned up.
It's hard to take a chance on buying one when the clips don't wow you, but maybe more than any other Amp out there, a Wizard had to be experienced in person to really get it.
 
Racerxrated said:
Clips clips clips......

This thread is the BEST example of why clips are incredibly limiting AND can be very misleading. I know...it's the only way to TRY and judge what a piece of gear can do....but, when the best attribute of an amplifier is what it does/how it sounds cranked, clearly there's no chance that will EVER translate on any clip, ever.

The best way I can describe a Wizard is this...if you have experience with an amp that when pushed, sounds incredible BECAUSE of the power section, then that's what a Wizard does. Old Superleads, 2203s, HiWatts, Coliseums, Triple Rectos, SLOs, VHT/Fryettes all have this great 'bloom' that have to be experienced live to really get it. Some amps like EVH stuff just get loud but don't have that 'thing' Wizards and others have.

The Wizard tone to me is mostly HiWatt with 'some' Marshall sprinkled in. Great feel, clarity like other great amps...but that power section is incredible and not many amps can match that 3D 'bloom' they seem to have when turned up.
It's hard to take a chance on buying one when the clips don't wow you, but maybe more than any other Amp out there, a Wizard had to be experienced in person to really get it.
Click to expand...
Agree. Punch. Muscle.
 
Racerxrated said:
Clips clips clips......

This thread is the BEST example of why clips are incredibly limiting AND can be very misleading. I know...it's the only way to TRY and judge what a piece of gear can do....but, when the best attribute of an amplifier is what it does/how it sounds cranked, clearly there's no chance that will EVER translate on any clip, ever.

The best way I can describe a Wizard is this...if you have experience with an amp that when pushed, sounds incredible BECAUSE of the power section, then that's what a Wizard does. Old Superleads, 2203s, HiWatts, Coliseums, Triple Rectos, SLOs, VHT/Fryettes all have this great 'bloom' that have to be experienced live to really get it. Some amps like EVH stuff just get loud but don't have that 'thing' Wizards and others have.

The Wizard tone to me is mostly HiWatt with 'some' Marshall sprinkled in. Great feel, clarity like other great amps...but that power section is incredible and not many amps can match that 3D 'bloom' they seem to have when turned up.
It's hard to take a chance on buying one when the clips don't wow you, but maybe more than any other Amp out there, a Wizard had to be experienced in person to really get it.
Click to expand...
I always like the MCII clips that I've heard. The MTL's and Hell Razors not so much but they're cool.
 
Racerxrated said:
Clips clips clips......

This thread is the BEST example of why clips are incredibly limiting AND can be very misleading. I know...it's the only way to TRY and judge what a piece of gear can do....but, when the best attribute of an amplifier is what it does/how it sounds cranked, clearly there's no chance that will EVER translate on any clip, ever.

The best way I can describe a Wizard is this...if you have experience with an amp that when pushed, sounds incredible BECAUSE of the power section, then that's what a Wizard does. Old Superleads, 2203s, HiWatts, Coliseums, Triple Rectos, SLOs, VHT/Fryettes all have this great 'bloom' that have to be experienced live to really get it. Some amps like EVH stuff just get loud but don't have that 'thing' Wizards and others have.

The Wizard tone to me is mostly HiWatt with 'some' Marshall sprinkled in. Great feel, clarity like other great amps...but that power section is incredible and not many amps can match that 3D 'bloom' they seem to have when turned up.
It's hard to take a chance on buying one when the clips don't wow you, but maybe more than any other Amp out there, a Wizard had to be experienced in person to really get it.
Click to expand...
I agree on the Hiwatt comparison at volume. I've only ever played one Wizard, an early Ard years and years ago. There is an upper midrange bite and presence coupled with incredible low end punch that never goes away even at crazy loud volumes when most amps start to sound flattened out across the midrange and get woofy on the lows. The bite and punch never goes away.
 
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Racerxrated said:
Clips clips clips......

This thread is the BEST example of why clips are incredibly limiting AND can be very misleading. I know...it's the only way to TRY and judge what a piece of gear can do....but, when the best attribute of an amplifier is what it does/how it sounds cranked, clearly there's no chance that will EVER translate on any clip, ever.

The best way I can describe a Wizard is this...if you have experience with an amp that when pushed, sounds incredible BECAUSE of the power section, then that's what a Wizard does. Old Superleads, 2203s, HiWatts, Coliseums, Triple Rectos, SLOs, VHT/Fryettes all have this great 'bloom' that have to be experienced live to really get it. Some amps like EVH stuff just get loud but don't have that 'thing' Wizards and others have.

The Wizard tone to me is mostly HiWatt with 'some' Marshall sprinkled in. Great feel, clarity like other great amps...but that power section is incredible and not many amps can match that 3D 'bloom' they seem to have when turned up.
It's hard to take a chance on buying one when the clips don't wow you, but maybe more than any other Amp out there, a Wizard had to be experienced in person to really get it.
Click to expand...

Even without cranking a Wizard at all, I still think they have the best sounding high gain preamps I've heard. I don't think you have to crank them at all to justify them. Their power sections are fantastic when you crank them, they hold up and punch in a way most other amps don't, but that's not mandatory to get the goods out of these things.

After all, part of the reason they're so good is that the power sections are so unshakable when delivering the sounds of the preamps.

edit: I'm not saying they shouldn't have the power sections they do, I'd imagine that even at really low volume, the engineering behind those poweramps shapes the sound overall same as any other amp, I'm just saying in my experience you don't have to crank them for them to sound great.
 
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TheGreatGreen said:
Even without cranking a Wizard at all, I still think they have the best sounding high gain preamps I've heard. I don't think you have to crank them at all to justify them. Their power sections are fantastic when you crank them, they hold up and punch in a way most other amps don't, but that's not mandatory to get the goods out of these things.

Part of the reason they're so good is that the power sections are so unshakable when delivering the sounds of the preamps to the cabs, after all.
Click to expand...
Yeah my volume is at 9:00 at gigs. Sounds awesome.

I have a 1974 DR103, it sounds like a Hiwatt not a Wizard. I don’t get the reference to them other than the cosmetics.

Wizards record awesome. Most of my cd project is using it. Sounds killer mic’d up at gigs.
Feel sorry for guys that have them that can’t gig with them, that is where they shine.
 
nightlight said:
I haven't seen people posting definitive clips
Click to expand...
There's no such thing.

Every recording ever, of anything, is a compromise. Some people say sticking a 57 up close doesn't represent real life, and that a cell phone recording does. Neither do. It's just down to the intended use, personal preference and your monitoring setup.

Studio recordings like Hetfield's may sound great - but there's nothing definitive, accurate or transparent about them.

If you're curious, buy one. If it doesn't work out, resell it. Yes it might be hassle and you could lose some money, but that's part of the game.
 
thegame said:
It's even worse. More like, recording amateur gets amateurish results on their recordings, blames the amp.
Click to expand...


The "problem" that everyone is trying to solve: finding gear (normally an amp) that makes you sound better than your current skill level at playing guitar/recording amps.

Is it even possible? Not at playing guitar. At recording? Technically kind of yes, but not in the way that most people think.

I am going to use a Dungeons and Dragons metaphor because it seems like the best way to explain this

What no one seems to realize is you need to start out as the "guitarist" class, take enough levels to get the "incredible right hand technique" feat. Then multiclass, put skill points into "critical listening," and dump a bunch of levels into "recording engineer."

You need to "multiclass" before you get that specific feat/ability (amps that make you sound even better than your skill level)

I repeat: it's not going to fucking matter until you get to a certain level of recording and guitar skill. And that is a pretty high level. Everyone wants a fuckin shortcut, and there isn't one

And once you dump a bunch of levels into recording, you can make almost any amp sound great (or shitty, if youre trying to portray it that way) anyways, which makes it less beneficial.


Yes, high end amps can synergize with your skills to get incredible tones. But it doesn't work like that unless you have a certain level of skills in the first place, and it's a long hard road.

No, if you're the average hobbyist, or even an above average one like Reza, a wizard or larry or whatever else isn't going to be "magic" to you because you don't have the "prerequisites" for the "class feat" anyways.
 
no Wizard here but I can attest to the fact that older amps have this specialness to them. not sure if it’s because of the older transformers or what but no matter how i dial in a 6505+, it just won’t do what a Mesa Mark III will. i’m not an electrical engineer or an amp builder so i couldn’t tell you why, but the transient response and feel on the Mark III is completely different than any modern amp. most other amps i’ve tried don’t do what it does including the newer ones like the Mark VII. i imagine the Wizards (like Hell Razor and MTL) take that idea and make it more modern and clear. same with the Deliverance from what i’ve read.

how much of that would translate to a recording? i think it depends. playing a full stack in a treated room and blending in a room mic that can capture transients well may give you some more of what you get in person, but you’ll lose some of the directness that high gain metal tones tend to benefit from/need.
 
I think the whole, "I don't hear anything special in clips" argument is limited. I have heard great clips of shit amps and vice versa.

I think the big disconnect is that what makes a wizard great is the feel. That feel was something special. Now there are a few others that in my opinion punch just as hard and feel special to play.

But it isn't a low volume amp. You need to open it up a bit to feel what is special. It isn't a glove that fits every hand, and it isn't the best amp line ever. It just irritates me when people have hate for it that haven't played it.
And that doesn't just go for wizards. I don't understand talking shit about Larrys or any other amp you haven't tried. It is a bit childish
 
DanTravis62 said:
The "problem" that everyone is trying to solve: finding gear (normally an amp) that makes you sound better than your current skill level at playing guitar/recording amps.

Is it even possible? Not at playing guitar. At recording? Technically kind of yes, but not in the way that most people think.

I am going to use a Dungeons and Dragons metaphor because it seems like the best way to explain this

What no one seems to realize is you need to start out as the "guitarist" class, take enough levels to get the "incredible right hand technique" feat. Then multiclass, put skill points into "critical listening," and dump a bunch of levels into "recording engineer."

You need to "multiclass" before you get that specific feat/ability (amps that make you sound even better than your skill level)

I repeat: it's not going to fucking matter until you get to a certain level of recording and guitar skill. And that is a pretty high level. Everyone wants a fuckin shortcut, and there isn't one

And once you dump a bunch of levels into recording, you can make almost any amp sound great (or shitty, if youre trying to portray it that way) anyways, which makes it less beneficial.


Yes, high end amps can synergize with your skills to get incredible tones. But it doesn't work like that unless you have a certain level of skills in the first place, and it's a long hard road.

No, if you're the average hobbyist, or even an above average one like Reza, a wizard or larry or whatever else isn't going to be "magic" to you because you don't have the "prerequisites" for the "class feat" anyways.
Click to expand...
All fair points for self recordists, but I'm talking about people outright dismissing the amp because it didn't comes across well on some rando's recording. Slight exaggeration but it's almost like judging a grand piano from hearing it on the phone only then concluding, "Man, Steinway pianos suck!"

Take Marty Friedman for example. Legendary guitar skills, doesn't know shit about gear yet those Megadeth albums have great lead tone. His tech did the dialing in on the amps and studio staff took care of recording/engineering. I bet that if some of today's armchair recording experts time travelled back to the actual studio sessions where classic sounding tones were achieved with the same pro players at the same sessions, and then recorded their rigs with an iPhone then much of the same gear now considered classic would've been summarily dismissed as well.
 
thegame said:
All fair points for self recordists, but I'm talking about people outright dismissing the amp because it didn't comes across well on some rando's recording. Slight exaggeration but it's almost like judging a grand piano from hearing it on the phone only then concluding, "Man, Steinway pianos suck!"

Take Marty Friedman for example. Legendary guitar skills, doesn't know shit about gear yet those Megadeth albums have great lead tone. His tech did the dialing in on the amps and studio staff took care of recording/engineering. I bet that if some of today's armchair recording experts time travelled back to the actual studio sessions where classic sounding tones were achieved with the same pro players at the same sessions, and then recorded their rigs with an iPhone then much of the same gear now considered classic would've been summarily dismissed as well.
Click to expand...

Yes.

The point im making is that even that doesn't matter unless the amp is in the right person's hands, anyways 😂
 
DanTravis62 said:
The point im making is that even that doesn't matter unless the amp is in the right person's hands, anyways 😂
Click to expand...
Most gear reviews on youtube fail on these grounds. Some dude picking/strumming G, C, and D on his strat. Then you have the 100 watt amp review in well known dude's studio apartment not even hitting 3 on the volume knob so he doesn't get evicted. I notice even some pretty popular accounts conspicuously avoid showing the control panel for that reason. It's an absolutely fantastic way to make a good sounding amp seem like dogshit.
 
VonBonfire said:
Most gear reviews on youtube fail on these grounds. Some dude picking/strumming G, C, and D on his strat. Then you have the 100 watt amp review in well known dude's studio apartment not even hitting 3 on the volume knob so he doesn't get evicted. I notice even some pretty popular accounts conspicuously avoid showing the control panel for that reason. It's an absolutely fantastic way to make a good sounding amp seem like dogshit.
Click to expand...

It happens ALL the time - especially with some of the popular high gain guys, all they ever do is like basic bitch drop d riffs with barely anything musical going on, or mindless alternate picking to show you how much they ShReD

Which yeah you can get sort of an idea of what the amp is about, but it's really obvious you never get to hear what it can actually do

There's never any extensions besides a fifth and maybe a third if you're lucky, it's always at low ass volume or with the same mesa boogie oversized IR so it sounds "professional"
 
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