Wizard Amps: Guys swear by them, clips don't do justice. Are there any clips - even of other amps - that come close?

[thegame]

dogshit.

Hey, let's not wear out that word man

 

[Drkorey]

Here's my alt. rock? type song with my 2013 50 watt MCI with factory modded added bright knobs into Ownhammer greenback IRs.
I'll also have a more Clutch inspired tune coming out in a bit that has my MCII on one side and an MTL MK2 on the other.

 

[Drkorey]

I thought this was a very interesting vid that our member ultimate metal guitar tones did - MTL MKII vs Mesa 2C+

 

[311boogieman]

Here's my alt. rock? type song with my 2013 50 watt MCI with factory modded added bright knobs into Ownhammer greenback IRs.
I'll also have a more Clutch inspired tune coming out in a bit that has my MCII on one side and an MTL MK2 on the other.

Wow. Where have you been all my life? You are about as OG as it gets. Did you change your username by chance? Thanks for sharing.

 

[Drkorey]

PM'd you to keep on topic (with shameless plug for more of my tunes linked in my sig ).

And TheGreatGreens recordings sound excellent!! Bleeding Me and Prince are killer!

 

[nightlight]

There's no such thing.

Every recording ever, of anything, is a compromise. Some people say sticking a 57 up close doesn't represent real life, and that a cell phone recording does. Neither do. It's just down to the intended use, personal preference and your monitoring setup.

Studio recordings like Hetfield's may sound great - but there's nothing definitive, accurate or transparent about them.

If you're curious, buy one. If it doesn't work out, resell it. Yes it might be hassle and you could lose some money, but that's part of the game.

US$6k is way too rich for my blood, and even $5k most sellers expect secondhand is pushing it. Like I said, not really putting any money down, I just hear a lot about the amps and their price is even higher than the $4k amps and guitars members complain about.

Also, not a lot of other forums where they are so popular as this one.

 

[nightlight]

Welp...I don't want to be mean. But, why don't you just buy Wizard and try it rather than waiting other guy's clips that convince you 'Wizard amps are cool'. Clips are just clips. You can't judge the amp before you try.

It might be feasible if you're in Canada or the US. In other parts of the world, they are incredibly rare.

I almost always try an amp (not talking about buying and returning, I usually shop secondhand) before buying. Same with guitars.

See, I can see some members with Wizards coming down on me and it's laughable as it is when people exhibit similar behaviour on the Kemper and Fractal forums.

@TheGreatGreen had some pretty awesome clips to share. But most of the time when I hear Wizard clips, it's kind of "meh", to be blunt.

Since there seems to be a trend towards ad hominem attacks, let me also skew my well-intended thread further and say, "I don't believe you",

Do you guys also not believe reviews of other amps on YT and say it doesn't capture the "troo feeeeeling" of playing the amp?

No? Then STFU.

 

[nightlight]

The "problem" that everyone is trying to solve: finding gear (normally an amp) that makes you sound better than your current skill level at playing guitar/recording amps.

Is it even possible? Not at playing guitar. At recording? Technically kind of yes, but not in the way that most people think.

I am going to use a Dungeons and Dragons metaphor because it seems like the best way to explain this

What no one seems to realize is you need to start out as the "guitarist" class, take enough levels to get the "incredible right hand technique" feat. Then multiclass, put skill points into "critical listening," and dump a bunch of levels into "recording engineer."

You need to "multiclass" before you get that specific feat/ability (amps that make you sound even better than your skill level)

I repeat: it's not going to fucking matter until you get to a certain level of recording and guitar skill. And that is a pretty high level. Everyone wants a fuckin shortcut, and there isn't one

And once you dump a bunch of levels into recording, you can make almost any amp sound great (or shitty, if youre trying to portray it that way) anyways, which makes it less beneficial.


Yes, high end amps can synergize with your skills to get incredible tones. But it doesn't work like that unless you have a certain level of skills in the first place, and it's a long hard road.

No, if you're the average hobbyist, or even an above average one like Reza, a wizard or larry or whatever else isn't going to be "magic" to you because you don't have the "prerequisites" for the "class feat" anyways.

LOL, great post, but it kind of sounds like Dungeons and Dragons we're talking about.

 

[S̷͖͑m̵͎͂á̵̺s̸͚̈́h̴̬̑]

It might be feasible if you're in Canada or the US. In other parts of the world, they are incredibly rare.

I almost always try an amp (not talking about buying and returning, I usually shop secondhand) before buying. Same with guitars.

See, I can see some members with Wizards coming down on me and it's laughable as it is when people exhibit similar behaviour on the Kemper and Fractal forums.

@TheGreatGreen had some pretty awesome clips to share. But most of the time when I hear Wizard clips, it's kind of "meh", to be blunt.

Since there seems to be a trend towards ad hominem attacks, let me also skew my well-intended thread further and say, "I don't believe you",

Do you guys also not believe reviews of other amps on YT and say it doesn't capture the "troo feeeeeling" of playing the amp?

No? Then STFU.

I think you may think people are attacking you. But really we are just trying to answer the question you are asking in the OP.

Have you played a mark series Mesa? There is a lot different feel in that amp than the feel of a mesa recto. I think the recto (with a boost) sounds better, however, the feel of the mark series is special.

If you decide how an amp records matters more than the playing experience, that is fine. But some of us play amps as a hobby first and foremost and so that is our goal in searching for amps.

For me finding an amp that sounds great and feels great is a real win

 

[Bossman415]

Wizards are killer amps... Build quality, noise floor, and tones are all top-notch. Personally I like the MTL MK I or II.

If you got the coin, I'd say go for it. You can always resell it if you're not happy. They tend to hold their values well.

 

[nightlight]

I think you may think people are attacking you. But really we are just trying to answer the question you are asking in the OP.

Have you played a mark series Mesa? There is a lot different feel in that amp than the feel of a mesa recto. I think the recto (with a boost) sounds better, however, the feel of the mark series is special.

If you decide how an amp records matters more than the playing experience, that is fine. But some of us play amps as a hobby first and foremost and so that is our goal in searching for amps.

For me finding an amp that sounds great and feels great is a real win

Well said, Smash. I apologise.

I do have a couple of Marks, great amps. And honestly, my interest is piqued about the Wizards, I would love to own one. The guy Rick used to be a tech for ACDC, so that is part of the fascination for me, I love that band and they have tone for days without ADAs. I'd love to even hear one in the wild.

Still, all said and done, I have zero chance of running into one out here.

And that's why clips help, as they do for many other amps. I never would have bought a Mark IV unless I heard it on LoG recordings and heard them. Same goes for VHT, I heard an Ultra Lead on a recording and I've been chasing one ever since.

Wizard? I respect members' tonal choices here more than other forums. So it was an honest question.

$5-6k is huge money for me, heck I remember Chugg Norris making fun of the floor in my wife's house haha. The more questions I ask, the more I get great clips like TheGreatGreen's, that's the fact of the matter.

PS: Did I post something similar earlier? I just might have, or perhaps I asked in a thread. The clips I heard on this thread, including Brandon's, all convince me that the Wizard HellRazor and MCII and MCI sound great.

But - and this is exactly what members have been trying to answer, I think - is what makes them special?

 

[S̷͖͑m̵͎͂á̵̺s̸͚̈́h̴̬̑]

Well said, Smash. I apologise.

I do have a couple of Marks, great amps. And honestly, my interest is piqued about the Wizards, I would love to own one. The guy Rick used to be a tech for ACDC, so that is part of the fascination for me, I love that band and they have tone for days without ADAs. I'd love to even hear one in the wild.

Still, all said and done, I have zero chance of running into one out here.

And that's why clips help, as they do for many other amps. I never would have bought a Mark IV unless I heard it on LoG recordings and heard them. Same goes for VHT, I heard an Ultra Lead on a recording and I've been chasing one ever since.

Wizard? I respect members' tonal choices here more than other forums. So it was an honest question.

$5-6k is huge money for me, heck I remember Chugg Norris making fun of the floor in my wife's house haha. The more questions I ask, the more I get great clips like TheGreatGreen's, that's the fact of the matter.

PS: Did I post something similar earlier? I just might have, or perhaps I asked in a thread. The clips I heard on this thread, including Brandon's, all convince me that the Wizard HellRazor and MCII and MCI sound great.

But - and this is exactly what members have been trying to answer, I think - is what makes them special?

The best thing isn't to buy one, though in your situation, it may be the only way. The best thing is get it in a room with great amps and go back to back. That is what we do at amp fests. There are tons of great amps out there.

The ultralead is one of the best voiced amps i have played. But back and forth with a wizard it just felt puny. That is why a lot of us were hoping for a version 2, because the deliverance 2 has serious punch.

Truthfully, wizards sound great, but I think their sound isn't for everyone and the feel is really unique with the immediacy and punch. There are others that punch as hard now, but none have that exact feel. Still, though it isn't my favorite amp, the single most fun amp I ever played was a 150 watt MTL mkII. It made the glass of beer jump around the table

 

[Inflames]

It might be feasible if you're in Canada or the US. In other parts of the world, they are incredibly rare.

I almost always try an amp (not talking about buying and returning, I usually shop secondhand) before buying. Same with guitars.

See, I can see some members with Wizards coming down on me and it's laughable as it is when people exhibit similar behaviour on the Kemper and Fractal forums.

@TheGreatGreen had some pretty awesome clips to share. But most of the time when I hear Wizard clips, it's kind of "meh", to be blunt.

Since there seems to be a trend towards ad hominem attacks, let me also skew my well-intended thread further and say, "I don't believe you",

Do you guys also not believe reviews of other amps on YT and say it doesn't capture the "troo feeeeeling" of playing the amp?

No? Then STFU.

I am not in the US or Canada like you. However, I purchased Larry PMM without hearing clips. I see YT demo for sure. But, those are not important factor when I buying amps. I'd rather trust owners review

It might be feasible if you're in Canada or the US. In other parts of the world, they are incredibly rare.

I almost always try an amp (not talking about buying and returning, I usually shop secondhand) before buying. Same with guitars.

See, I can see some members with Wizards coming down on me and it's laughable as it is when people exhibit similar behaviour on the Kemper and Fractal forums.

@TheGreatGreen had some pretty awesome clips to share. But most of the time when I hear Wizard clips, it's kind of "meh", to be blunt.

Since there seems to be a trend towards ad hominem attacks, let me also skew my well-intended thread further and say, "I don't believe you",

Do you guys also not believe reviews of other amps on YT and say it doesn't capture the "troo feeeeeling" of playing the amp?

No? Then STFU.

It might be feasible if you're in Canada or the US. In other parts of the world, they are incredibly rare.

I almost always try an amp (not talking about buying and returning, I usually shop secondhand) before buying. Same with guitars.

See, I can see some members with Wizards coming down on me and it's laughable as it is when people exhibit similar behaviour on the Kemper and Fractal forums.

@TheGreatGreen had some pretty awesome clips to share. But most of the time when I hear Wizard clips, it's kind of "meh", to be blunt.

Since there seems to be a trend towards ad hominem attacks, let me also skew my well-intended thread further and say, "I don't believe you",

Do you guys also not believe reviews of other amps on YT and say it doesn't capture the "troo feeeeeling" of playing the amp?

No? Then STFU.

I am not in the US or Canada like you. And I am not even in EU. I had big Larry GAS before I order. Then I found YT clips and most of Larry clips were shit. However, I pulled the trigger and now I am happy now. Anyway, I was trying to say someone's opinion or clips doesn't scratch your itch evetually. That's all.

 

[peterc52]

I found dozens of cool clips of the hell razor before I bought it. It did not disappoint one bit

 

[Eazy-ESP]

Clips of them haven’t been great. If I paid that much for a new one I’d probably be trying to convince everyone and myself that it just something you can’t capture too.

That said, I would like to try one. I think part of what everyone loves so much is the feel. I don’t care if it doesn’t sound thousands of dollars more expensive. Most amps sound good enough to me. Feel though is hard to always find.

I have to say though, I saw the living end playing them recently and was not impressed. Sounded too tight in the low end. But I also hate that band so may have been in a bad mood.

 

[DanTravis62]

LOL, great post, but it kind of sounds like Dungeons and Dragons we're talking about.

I was just using D&D as a way to explain it, as I said in the post

Anytime it's wizards, or hermansson, or larry, or any of these super niche, super expensive amps, I feel like people don't even know what they're getting into most of the time - which leads to the guys having them getting their pitchforks out, and the guys that think they are overpriced getting their pitchforks out. It's kind of stupid but I get it.

But the point i'm getting at is OF COURSE there aren't many good clips, just like there aren't many good clips of any other super niche super expensive brand - this isn't a Mesa Boogie or Friedman, or even a Fryette were talking about - we're talking about "companies" that ship a handful of amps a year.

After I went to all that effort to explain how difficult it is to accurately represent/make representative clips of those types of amps, does it make sense why there aren't any good clips? How many of those amps just go to rich guys who can barely play or know nothing about recording? The answer is "most of them."

And then even when you do make good clips, as @TheGreatGreen just showed with wizards, and like I've done with a larry a million times, invariably you guys who haven't played/owned one do the jeremy clarkson "anyway....." (four seconds later) "WHERE ALL ALL THE CLIPS?"

So you can understand why it's a little frustrating for people, no?

 

[nightlight]

I was just using D&D as a way to explain it, as I said in the post

Anytime it's wizards, or hermansson, or larry, or any of these super niche, super expensive amps, I feel like people don't even know what they're getting into most of the time - which leads to the guys having them getting their pitchforks out, and the guys that think they are overpriced getting their pitchforks out. It's kind of stupid but I get it.

But the point i'm getting at is OF COURSE there aren't many good clips, just like there aren't many good clips of any other super niche super expensive brand - this isn't a Mesa Boogie or Friedman, or even a Fryette were talking about - we're talking about "companies" that ship a handful of amps a year.

After I went to all that effort to explain how difficult it is to accurately represent/make representative clips of those types of amps, does it make sense why there aren't any good clips? How many of those amps just go to rich guys who can barely play or know nothing about recording? The answer is "most of them."

And then even when you do make good clips, as @TheGreatGreen just showed with wizards, and like I've done with a larry a million times, invariably you guys who haven't played/owned one do the jeremy clarkson "anyway....." (four seconds later) "WHERE ALL ALL THE CLIPS?"

So you can understand why it's a little frustrating for people, no?

That's a good point. Anyone have an idea for how many have been sold? That would be another metric for how good an amp is, for example the ubiquitous 5150, but the masses are often clueless about tone.

I guess in a way you could say I'm sold, yet at the same time, the product is being undersold. Don't see a great many bands using them either, though there are famous examples like ACDC, who didn't stick with it.

It's my sad luck to have never heard or tried on, I guess. Clips are all I have to go by.

 

[DanTravis62]

That's a good point. Anyone have an idea for how many have been sold? That would be another metric for how good an amp is, for example the ubiquitous 5150, but the masses are often clueless about tone.

I guess in a way you could say I'm sold, yet at the same time, the product is being undersold. Don't see a great many bands using them either, though there are famous examples like ACDC, who didn't stick with it.

It's my sad luck to have never heard or tried on, I guess. Clips are all I have to go by.

There's a ton of guys who use them live and in the studio - or, they use them in the studio and use a kemper profile of it live, like Wolf Hoffman.

Richie Faulker (new guy in priest) uses them both live AND in the studio

Matthias Jabs and Rudy Schenker used them both live and in the studio for years and years, not sure if they still do

Dan and Justin Hawkins from the Darkness, Dan still uses them live IIRC

Jeff Waters from Annihilator used them both live and in the studio forever, I think he just got an endorsement with Hughes and Kettner though

And I'm not even a wizard fanboy or something, and these are just off the top of my head

 

[no.mids.brando]

Sotiris’ MTL clips are the GOAT.
Search them on Ultimate Metal Guitar Tones

since we’re (somewhat) on the topic of Marks, is it safe to say that the IIC+ HRG RI is a worthy replacement to your old IIC++ SG? the HRG RI is literally in stock at Sweetwater, yet the limited run IIC++ RI is going for 9k plus… crossing my fingers that the HRG RI cannibalizes it.

also hoping to cover the ground that the VH140c does, specifically OSDM. i heard the clips you have up of it and i can see how the IIC++ could do a better version of that, but can Marks do that old Suffocation - irrationally scooped - get buried in any live mix thing that VH140c is known for? that’s a fun sound i’ve been chasing for a while, but there’s no way i could justify current VH140c prices. if i can kill 2 birds with one stone ie Metallica tone chasing & OSDM tone chasing via the HRG RI, that would be perfect.

 

[Racerxrated]

Even without cranking a Wizard at all, I still think they have the best sounding high gain preamps I've heard. I don't think you have to crank them at all to justify them. Their power sections are fantastic when you crank them, they hold up and punch in a way most other amps don't, but that's not mandatory to get the goods out of these things.

After all, part of the reason they're so good is that the power sections are so unshakable when delivering the sounds of the preamps.

edit: I'm not saying they shouldn't have the power sections they do, I'd imagine that even at really low volume, the engineering behind those poweramps shapes the sound overall same as any other amp, I'm just saying in my experience you don't have to crank them for them to sound great.

Agree. I also feel that way about nearly every amp out there.....I've never heard any amp sound bad at a low vol. But a Wizard is like a carnival ride when you turn it up.