Cameron type amps

[idnotbe]

The last part, I said this a couple years back when the certain former modder/current builder's products started sounding MUCH better IMO...that it has a TON to do with working with those Cameron circuits for that last Cameron run.
No disrespect intended, anyone would have sponged up tips/tricks that they learned from Cameron. But the timing/coincidence is just WAY too obvious.

Who are the certain modders / builders who make better sounding amps?
Just curious...

 

[LP Freak]

Its definitely a shame about MC and his issues. As others here have already said, they have a certain sonic growl & chimeyness no other amp comes close to. It's like magic when you plug into an Atomica. I played one years ago and I've been trying to find an original Cameron ever since. They rarely come up for sale and if they do its gone in hours if not minutes.

I finally got my hands on one of the original 20 Atomicas built by Mark. #020. All I have to say is not only does it sound ungodly good, its tone you dream of and to die for. Plus the amp is by far one of the cleanest & neatest builds I've ever seen inside a chassis. I love my Friedman SS100 and hot rodded Marshalls but this Atomica is in a class of its own.
Just my 2 cents....

Just to let you in a little secret.....Mark didn't build the Atomica

Interesting. who built the first 20?

That would have been George Metropoulos

 

[Chester Nimitz]

I thought it was Jose' ...

 

[dogman]

Its definitely a shame about MC and his issues. As others here have already said, they have a certain sonic growl & chimeyness no other amp comes close to. It's like magic when you plug into an Atomica. I played one years ago and I've been trying to find an original Cameron ever since. They rarely come up for sale and if they do its gone in hours if not minutes.

I finally got my hands on one of the original 20 Atomicas built by Mark. #020. All I have to say is not only does it sound ungodly good, its tone you dream of and to die for. Plus the amp is by far one of the cleanest & neatest builds I've ever seen inside a chassis. I love my Friedman SS100 and hot rodded Marshalls but this Atomica is in a class of its own.
Just my 2 cents....

Just to let you in a little secret.....Mark didn't build the Atomica

Interesting. who built the first 20?

That would have been George Metropoulos

I thought George & Dave Friedman built the Brad runs and Mark built the very first originals prior to Brad acquiring Cameron Amplification.

 

[FourT6and2]

-there isn't a -(CAMERON CLONE)- that's even in the same galaxy, to what its feebley trying to, but failing to "clone", and not just a little either, like FUCKIN-UGE!!!.. Epidemic proportions, yup!! CERITONE!! what joke, even worse than chibson, not only is the circuit completely wrong, its 100% wrong! so wrong, its as if they went out of there way to be wrong!!.. is it no wonder that it not only sounds nothing like a CAMERON, it just sounds bad.. -built with the absolute worst of everything, not just the components that effect tone,
-It's more than apparent to me, that the amps that are built by even good tech's, with the blueprints of the amp, the exact components, only difference being the builder, MARK CAMERON's amp will sound & feel much better!!!

Against all better judgement, I'd like to address some points here. I'm telling myself I should stay out of this thread. But I guess I'm either bored or just plain stupid...

You say Ceriatone's circuit is "completely wrong." Ok, wrong according to what and who? First, nowhere has Ceriatone ever made the claim the Chupa/Yeti are supposed to be Cameron clones. A lot of people make the same exact circuit: Fortin, Cameron, Jose, Friedman, Dryer, Gowar, Ceriatone, and so on. They are ALL the same amp. Just voiced differently according to the builder's tastes. But beyond Builder X's personal preference for a 33K slope resistor vs. 39K vs. 47K, or Builder Y's personal preference for a 220K V1a plate load vs. 330K vs. 470K, or Builder Z's personal preference for 2K7/.68uF cathode bypass caps in the first/second stage vs. 820R... they are all the same amp. Changing a few values here and there to voice the amp differently does not make it a different amp. And doing so does also not make the amp "wrong" compared to how another guy chooses to do it. So... what exactly is "wrong" with how Ceriatone does it?

From having seen the schematics, played a few, and built a few, I think the Chupacabra is closer to how Fortin does a "Cali" than Cameron or anybody else. And personally, I think the Chupacabra sounds pretty damn good. I haven't heard too many clips on YouTube that actually show off how it really sounds, though. So I wouldn't go by that. Seems like you have a real bias here. And you're going out of your way to slam Ceriatone for no reason.

I don't know who "invented" the "Cali" circuit. Was it Mark Cameron? If so, cool. It's a good design. I'm glad a lot of other people are building this circuit (and voicing it differently). It gives us, the consumer, options. Competition is a good thing for us.

You say Ceriatone builds their amps with "the absolute worst components." Prove it. Where is your proof? That's a huge accusation. I've owned two Ceriatone-built amps (Chup and Yeti). And I've received 4 of their kits and built a few with both their parts and my own. So I feel I have at least some first-hand experience here. Ceriatone uses the SAME components everybody else does. Board caps: Mallory 150s, TAD, Mojo Dijon, SoZo, Spraque Orange Drop (polyester), and ERO MKT 1813. All high-quality caps that Fortin, Friedman, Bogner, Cameron, and etc. all use. Resistors: the same 1-watt, carbon film resistors everybody else uses. Diodes: I've seen both Vishay 1N4007 and UF4007 ultra fast. Again, the SAME ones everybody else uses. In fact, not a lot of other people bother with the UF diodes. So that is a nice UPGRADE. Pots: Alpha. Not the greatest. Not the worst. Actually, a lot of people recommend using Alphas instead of expensive, sealed pots. Why? Because you can service them and clean them, unlike sealed pots that you pay $10/each for and have to throw away and replace when they go bad instead of being able to fix 'em. Aiken even recommends Alphas now. They have a better feel and taper than CTS in my opinion. Tube sockets? Ceriatone uses Belton Micalex. Again, the same high-quality ones everybody else uses. Switches? The same ones you can buy at Mouser, Tube Depot, AES, and so on. Power switches are import. But get the job done. It's a power switch. It's not going to make or break your ability to play the same Van Halen riff in your basement over and over again for 28 years. Jacks: real UK Cliff Jacks. You should have no complaints there. Wire: teflon-coated, silver plated, 22 AWG. High-quality stuff in all reality. The ONLY thing that is unknown are the electrolytic caps, which are Ceriatone-branded. And maybe the iron, which is made by Prometheus Audio.

I've built 4 of these amps now. All using different iron: Merren, Marstran (Heyboer), Classic Tone, and the stock Ceriatone iron. Guess what. Not a lot of difference either way. People like to scream and yell about transformers being the end all be all of guitar mojo. No. Sorry. It's all BS. And if you're really making the claim that Ceriatone's amps are built with sub-par, "absolute worst" components, then you're full of it too. So yeah... prove it.

I'm not an amp tech. I'm just a hobbyist. It build amps for fun. I've owned a few Cameron amps. They were ok. Not really my cup of tea. I've heard clips I really liked, but the amps in person haven't lived up to the hype. I've had Fortin amps as well. Same deal. They are ok. But not really my thing. Tone-wise, I think my KSR amps are some of my favorites. The Chupacabra I have is also downright amazing. So yeah, I guess I feel like I should speak up when someone slams the company without providing any details or proof. Seems to me a lot of people are angry at Ceriatone for offering the same product, but at a better price, because they are in a foreign country, with a lower cost of doing business. Seems like your agenda is showing.

So, again, if you think Ceriatone's Chupacabra is "wrong" and you think they are built with "the absolute worst components," PROVE. IT.

 

[Jayy]

-there isn't a -(CAMERON CLONE)- that's even in the same galaxy, to what its feebley trying to, but failing to "clone", and not just a little either, like FUCKIN-UGE!!!.. Epidemic proportions, yup!! CERITONE!! what joke, even worse than chibson, not only is the circuit completely wrong, its 100% wrong! so wrong, its as if they went out of there way to be wrong!!.. is it no wonder that it not only sounds nothing like a CAMERON, it just sounds bad.. -built with the absolute worst of everything, not just the components that effect tone,
-It's more than apparent to me, that the amps that are built by even good tech's, with the blueprints of the amp, the exact components, only difference being the builder, MARK CAMERON's amp will sound & feel much better!!!

Against all better judgement, I'd like to address some points here. I'm telling myself I should stay out of this thread. But I guess I'm either bored or just plain stupid...

You say Ceriatone's circuit is "completely wrong." Ok, wrong according to what and who? First, nowhere has Ceriatone ever made the claim the Chupa/Yeti are supposed to be Cameron clones. A lot of people make the same exact circuit: Fortin, Cameron, Jose, Friedman, Dryer, Gowar, Ceriatone, and so on. They are ALL the same amp. Just voiced differently according to the builder's tastes. But beyond Builder X's personal preference for a 33K slope resistor vs. 39K vs. 47K, or Builder Y's personal preference for a 220K V1a plate load vs. 330K vs. 470K, or Builder Z's personal preference for 2K7/.68uF cathode bypass caps in the first/second stage vs. 820R... they are all the same amp. Changing a few values here and there to voice the amp differently does not make it a different amp. And doing so does also not make the amp "wrong" compared to how another guy chooses to do it. So... what exactly is "wrong" with how Ceriatone does it?

From having seen the schematics, played a few, and built a few, I think the Chupacabra is closer to how Fortin does a "Cali" than Cameron or anybody else. And personally, I think the Chupacabra sounds pretty damn good. I haven't heard too many clips on YouTube that actually show off how it really sounds, though. So I wouldn't go by that. Seems like you have a real bias here. And you're going out of your way to slam Ceriatone for no reason.

I don't know who "invented" the "Cali" circuit. Was it Mark Cameron? If so, cool. It's a good design. I'm glad a lot of other people are building this circuit (and voicing it differently). It gives us, the consumer, options. Competition is a good thing for us.

You say Ceriatone builds their amps with "the absolute worst components." Prove it. Where is your proof? That's a huge accusation. I've owned two Ceriatone-built amps (Chup and Yeti). And I've received 4 of their kits and built a few with both their parts and my own. So I feel I have at least some first-hand experience here. Ceriatone uses the SAME components everybody else does. Board caps: Mallory 150s, TAD, Mojo Dijon, SoZo, Spraque Orange Drop (polyester), and ERO MKT 1813. All high-quality caps that Fortin, Friedman, Bogner, Cameron, and etc. all use. Resistors: the same 1-watt, carbon film resistors everybody else uses. Diodes: I've seen both Vishay 1N4007 and UF4007 ultra fast. Again, the SAME ones everybody else uses. In fact, not a lot of other people bother with the UF diodes. So that is a nice UPGRADE. Pots: Alpha. Not the greatest. Not the worst. Actually, a lot of people recommend using Alphas instead of expensive, sealed pots. Why? Because you can service them and clean them, unlike sealed pots that you pay $10/each for and have to throw away and replace when they go bad instead of being able to fix 'em. Aiken even recommends Alphas now. They have a better feel and taper than CTS in my opinion. Tube sockets? Ceriatone uses Belton Micalex. Again, the same high-quality ones everybody else uses. Switches? The same ones you can buy at Mouser, Tube Depot, AES, and so on. Power switches are import. But get the job done. It's a power switch. It's not going to make or break your ability to play the same Van Halen riff in your basement over and over again for 28 years. Jacks: real UK Cliff Jacks. You should have no complaints there. Wire: teflon-coated, silver plated, 22 AWG. High-quality stuff in all reality. The ONLY thing that is unknown are the electrolytic caps, which are Ceriatone-branded. And maybe the iron, which is made by Prometheus Audio.

I've built 4 of these amps now. All using different iron: Merren, Marstran (Heyboer), Classic Tone, and the stock Ceriatone iron. Guess what. Not a lot of difference either way. People like to scream and yell about transformers being the end all be all of guitar mojo. No. Sorry. It's all BS. And if you're really making the claim that Ceriatone's amps are built with sub-par, "absolute worst" components, then you're full of it too. So yeah... prove it.

I'm not an amp tech. I'm just a hobbyist. It build amps for fun. I've owned a few Cameron amps. They were ok. Not really my cup of tea. I've heard clips I really liked, but the amps in person haven't lived up to the hype. I've had Fortin amps as well. Same deal. They are ok. But not really my thing. Tone-wise, I think my KSR amps are some of my favorites. The Chupacabra I have is also downright amazing. So yeah, I guess I feel like I should speak up when someone slams the company without providing any details or proof. Seems to me a lot of people are angry at Ceriatone for offering the same product, but at a better price, because they are in a foreign country, with a lower cost of doing business. Seems like your agenda is showing.

So, again, if you think Ceriatone's Chupacabra is "wrong" and you think they are built with "the absolute worst components," PROVE. IT.

46 and 2:

Thank you for saying that! I was debating with myself whether or not to make the exact same points!

 

[Racerxrated]

"I've built 4 of these amps now. All using different iron: Merren, Marstran (Heyboer, Classic Tone, and the stock Ceriatone iron. Guess what. Not a lot of difference either way. People like to scream and yell about transformers being the end all be all of guitar mojo. No. Sorry. It's all BS. And if you're really making the claim that Ceriatone's amps are built with sub-par, "absolute worst" components, then you're full of it too. So yeah... prove it. "

Couple things i disagree with. First off, I absolutely DO believe transformers make a difference. Maybe you are saying in new builds, or new vs vintage? IMO in vintage vs new or reissue amps, like a JCM 800 or Jubilee RI, when you get those to gig or beyond volume the vintage one ALWAYS sounds better, and obviously so TO ME. So I believe in the transformer difference. Now, maybe component value drift or the aging of the circuit has more to do with that? I don't know but what I do know is what I hear. YMMV.

The other item I have personal experience with is the one Ceriatone I owned the PT went out at a gig. It was the stock Ceriatone. The previous owner was a longtime RTer here and swore he never mismatched cabs, and the tubes were new. It was a Fortin Cali mod, and Mike was great in helping my local guy replace with a classictone. Didn't sound much different, but was a killer amp.
That experience is enough that if I were to order a Ceriatone, I'd order without the trannys.

 

[FourT6and2]

-there isn't a -(CAMERON CLONE)- that's even in the same galaxy, to what its feebley trying to, but failing to "clone", and not just a little either, like FUCKIN-UGE!!!.. Epidemic proportions, yup!! CERITONE!! what joke, even worse than chibson, not only is the circuit completely wrong, its 100% wrong! so wrong, its as if they went out of there way to be wrong!!.. is it no wonder that it not only sounds nothing like a CAMERON, it just sounds bad.. -built with the absolute worst of everything, not just the components that effect tone,
-It's more than apparent to me, that the amps that are built by even good tech's, with the blueprints of the amp, the exact components, only difference being the builder, MARK CAMERON's amp will sound & feel much better!!!

Against all better judgement, I'd like to address some points here. I'm telling myself I should stay out of this thread. But I guess I'm either bored or just plain stupid...

You say Ceriatone's circuit is "completely wrong." Ok, wrong according to what and who? First, nowhere has Ceriatone ever made the claim the Chupa/Yeti are supposed to be Cameron clones. A lot of people make the same exact circuit: Fortin, Cameron, Jose, Friedman, Dryer, Gowar, Ceriatone, and so on. They are ALL the same amp. Just voiced differently according to the builder's tastes. But beyond Builder X's personal preference for a 33K slope resistor vs. 39K vs. 47K, or Builder Y's personal preference for a 220K V1a plate load vs. 330K vs. 470K, or Builder Z's personal preference for 2K7/.68uF cathode bypass caps in the first/second stage vs. 820R... they are all the same amp. Changing a few values here and there to voice the amp differently does not make it a different amp. And doing so does also not make the amp "wrong" compared to how another guy chooses to do it. So... what exactly is "wrong" with how Ceriatone does it?

From having seen the schematics, played a few, and built a few, I think the Chupacabra is closer to how Fortin does a "Cali" than Cameron or anybody else. And personally, I think the Chupacabra sounds pretty damn good. I haven't heard too many clips on YouTube that actually show off how it really sounds, though. So I wouldn't go by that. Seems like you have a real bias here. And you're going out of your way to slam Ceriatone for no reason.

I don't know who "invented" the "Cali" circuit. Was it Mark Cameron? If so, cool. It's a good design. I'm glad a lot of other people are building this circuit (and voicing it differently). It gives us, the consumer, options. Competition is a good thing for us.

You say Ceriatone builds their amps with "the absolute worst components." Prove it. Where is your proof? That's a huge accusation. I've owned two Ceriatone-built amps (Chup and Yeti). And I've received 4 of their kits and built a few with both their parts and my own. So I feel I have at least some first-hand experience here. Ceriatone uses the SAME components everybody else does. Board caps: Mallory 150s, TAD, Mojo Dijon, SoZo, Spraque Orange Drop (polyester), and ERO MKT 1813. All high-quality caps that Fortin, Friedman, Bogner, Cameron, and etc. all use. Resistors: the same 1-watt, carbon film resistors everybody else uses. Diodes: I've seen both Vishay 1N4007 and UF4007 ultra fast. Again, the SAME ones everybody else uses. In fact, not a lot of other people bother with the UF diodes. So that is a nice UPGRADE. Pots: Alpha. Not the greatest. Not the worst. Actually, a lot of people recommend using Alphas instead of expensive, sealed pots. Why? Because you can service them and clean them, unlike sealed pots that you pay $10/each for and have to throw away and replace when they go bad instead of being able to fix 'em. Aiken even recommends Alphas now. They have a better feel and taper than CTS in my opinion. Tube sockets? Ceriatone uses Belton Micalex. Again, the same high-quality ones everybody else uses. Switches? The same ones you can buy at Mouser, Tube Depot, AES, and so on. Power switches are import. But get the job done. It's a power switch. It's not going to make or break your ability to play the same Van Halen riff in your basement over and over again for 28 years. Jacks: real UK Cliff Jacks. You should have no complaints there. Wire: teflon-coated, silver plated, 22 AWG. High-quality stuff in all reality. The ONLY thing that is unknown are the electrolytic caps, which are Ceriatone-branded. And maybe the iron, which is made by Prometheus Audio.

I've built 4 of these amps now. All using different iron: Merren, Marstran (Heyboer), Classic Tone, and the stock Ceriatone iron. Guess what. Not a lot of difference either way. People like to scream and yell about transformers being the end all be all of guitar mojo. No. Sorry. It's all BS. And if you're really making the claim that Ceriatone's amps are built with sub-par, "absolute worst" components, then you're full of it too. So yeah... prove it.

I'm not an amp tech. I'm just a hobbyist. It build amps for fun. I've owned a few Cameron amps. They were ok. Not really my cup of tea. I've heard clips I really liked, but the amps in person haven't lived up to the hype. I've had Fortin amps as well. Same deal. They are ok. But not really my thing. Tone-wise, I think my KSR amps are some of my favorites. The Chupacabra I have is also downright amazing. So yeah, I guess I feel like I should speak up when someone slams the company without providing any details or proof. Seems to me a lot of people are angry at Ceriatone for offering the same product, but at a better price, because they are in a foreign country, with a lower cost of doing business. Seems like your agenda is showing.

So, again, if you think Ceriatone's Chupacabra is "wrong" and you think they are built with "the absolute worst components," PROVE. IT.

46 and 2:

Thank you for saying that! I was debating with myself whether or not to make the exact same points!

Pretty sure it's gonna come back to bite me. I'm guessing the reply is going to be filled with personal attacks and nonsense. But whatever. I think anybody reading this will be able to read between the lines.

 

[paulyc]

I thought it was Jose' ...

Jose was from Argentina, NOT Mexico.

 

[paulyc]

-there isn't a -(CAMERON CLONE)- that's even in the same galaxy, to what its feebley trying to, but failing to "clone", and not just a little either, like FUCKIN-UGE!!!.. Epidemic proportions, yup!! CERITONE!! what joke, even worse than chibson, not only is the circuit completely wrong, its 100% wrong! so wrong, its as if they went out of there way to be wrong!!.. is it no wonder that it not only sounds nothing like a CAMERON, it just sounds bad.. -built with the absolute worst of everything, not just the components that effect tone,
-It's more than apparent to me, that the amps that are built by even good tech's, with the blueprints of the amp, the exact components, only difference being the builder, MARK CAMERON's amp will sound & feel much better!!!

Against all better judgement, I'd like to address some points here. I'm telling myself I should stay out of this thread. But I guess I'm either bored or just plain stupid...

You say Ceriatone's circuit is "completely wrong." Ok, wrong according to what and who? First, nowhere has Ceriatone ever made the claim the Chupa/Yeti are supposed to be Cameron clones. A lot of people make the same exact circuit: Fortin, Cameron, Jose, Friedman, Dryer, Gowar, Ceriatone, and so on. They are ALL the same amp. Just voiced differently according to the builder's tastes. But beyond Builder X's personal preference for a 33K slope resistor vs. 39K vs. 47K, or Builder Y's personal preference for a 220K V1a plate load vs. 330K vs. 470K, or Builder Z's personal preference for 2K7/.68uF cathode bypass caps in the first/second stage vs. 820R... they are all the same amp. Changing a few values here and there to voice the amp differently does not make it a different amp. And doing so does also not make the amp "wrong" compared to how another guy chooses to do it. So... what exactly is "wrong" with how Ceriatone does it?

From having seen the schematics, played a few, and built a few, I think the Chupacabra is closer to how Fortin does a "Cali" than Cameron or anybody else. And personally, I think the Chupacabra sounds pretty damn good. I haven't heard too many clips on YouTube that actually show off how it really sounds, though. So I wouldn't go by that. Seems like you have a real bias here. And you're going out of your way to slam Ceriatone for no reason.

I don't know who "invented" the "Cali" circuit. Was it Mark Cameron? If so, cool. It's a good design. I'm glad a lot of other people are building this circuit (and voicing it differently). It gives us, the consumer, options. Competition is a good thing for us.

You say Ceriatone builds their amps with "the absolute worst components." Prove it. Where is your proof? That's a huge accusation. I've owned two Ceriatone-built amps (Chup and Yeti). And I've received 4 of their kits and built a few with both their parts and my own. So I feel I have at least some first-hand experience here. Ceriatone uses the SAME components everybody else does. Board caps: Mallory 150s, TAD, Mojo Dijon, SoZo, Spraque Orange Drop (polyester), and ERO MKT 1813. All high-quality caps that Fortin, Friedman, Bogner, Cameron, and etc. all use. Resistors: the same 1-watt, carbon film resistors everybody else uses. Diodes: I've seen both Vishay 1N4007 and UF4007 ultra fast. Again, the SAME ones everybody else uses. In fact, not a lot of other people bother with the UF diodes. So that is a nice UPGRADE. Pots: Alpha. Not the greatest. Not the worst. Actually, a lot of people recommend using Alphas instead of expensive, sealed pots. Why? Because you can service them and clean them, unlike sealed pots that you pay $10/each for and have to throw away and replace when they go bad instead of being able to fix 'em. Aiken even recommends Alphas now. They have a better feel and taper than CTS in my opinion. Tube sockets? Ceriatone uses Belton Micalex. Again, the same high-quality ones everybody else uses. Switches? The same ones you can buy at Mouser, Tube Depot, AES, and so on. Power switches are import. But get the job done. It's a power switch. It's not going to make or break your ability to play the same Van Halen riff in your basement over and over again for 28 years. Jacks: real UK Cliff Jacks. You should have no complaints there. Wire: teflon-coated, silver plated, 22 AWG. High-quality stuff in all reality. The ONLY thing that is unknown are the electrolytic caps, which are Ceriatone-branded. And maybe the iron, which is made by Prometheus Audio.

I've built 4 of these amps now. All using different iron: Merren, Marstran (Heyboer), Classic Tone, and the stock Ceriatone iron. Guess what. Not a lot of difference either way. People like to scream and yell about transformers being the end all be all of guitar mojo. No. Sorry. It's all BS. And if you're really making the claim that Ceriatone's amps are built with sub-par, "absolute worst" components, then you're full of it too. So yeah... prove it.

I'm not an amp tech. I'm just a hobbyist. It build amps for fun. I've owned a few Cameron amps. They were ok. Not really my cup of tea. I've heard clips I really liked, but the amps in person haven't lived up to the hype. I've had Fortin amps as well. Same deal. They are ok. But not really my thing. Tone-wise, I think my KSR amps are some of my favorites. The Chupacabra I have is also downright amazing. So yeah, I guess I feel like I should speak up when someone slams the company without providing any details or proof. Seems to me a lot of people are angry at Ceriatone for offering the same product, but at a better price, because they are in a foreign country, with a lower cost of doing business. Seems like your agenda is showing.

So, again, if you think Ceriatone's Chupacabra is "wrong" and you think they are built with "the absolute worst components," PROVE. IT.

46 and 2:

Thank you for saying that! I was debating with myself whether or not to make the exact same points!

Pretty sure it's gonna come back to bite me. I'm guessing the reply is going to be filled with personal attacks and nonsense. But whatever. I think anybody reading this will be able to read between the lines.

The forum needs a "like" button.

 

[FourT6and2]

"I've built 4 of these amps now. All using different iron: Merren, Marstran (Heyboer, Classic Tone, and the stock Ceriatone iron. Guess what. Not a lot of difference either way. People like to scream and yell about transformers being the end all be all of guitar mojo. No. Sorry. It's all BS. And if you're really making the claim that Ceriatone's amps are built with sub-par, "absolute worst" components, then you're full of it too. So yeah... prove it. "

Couple things i disagree with. First off, I absolutely DO believe transformers make a difference. Maybe you are saying in new builds, or new vs vintage? IMO in vintage vs new or reissue amps, like a JCM 800 or Jubilee RI, when you get those to gig or beyond volume the vintage one ALWAYS sounds better, and obviously so TO ME. So I believe in the transformer difference. Now, maybe component value drift or the aging of the circuit has more to do with that? I don't know but what I do know is what I hear. YMMV.

Man, I'm talking about the magic mojo pixie dust people think exists. Of course iron makes a sonic difference. But it's not anything special or mythical. It's the same difference between pickups. Some sound good, some sound great, some sound ok. But I've not encountered a set of iron that made an amp sound bad.

The other item I have personal experience with is the one Ceriatone I owned the PT went out at a gig. It was the stock Ceriatone. The previous owner was a longtime RTer here and swore he never mismatched cabs, and the tubes were new. It was a Fortin Cali mod, and Mike was great in helping my local guy replace with a classictone. Didn't sound much different, but was a killer amp.
That experience is enough that if I were to order a Ceriatone, I'd order without the trannys.

I'd have to ask: who built the amp? Was it built by Ceriatone? You say it was a Fortin Cali mod? I don't understand. So... Ceriatone built the amp, then a third-party modified it? Then it changed hands? And then the PT went out on you? Ok... well it happens. Every single amp builder out there has had an amp break down. One bad PT out of the thousands and thousands of amps Ceriatone has sold over the years doesn't mean a lot. Sorry your amp broke. That's besides the point I'm making here. Ceriatone doesn't make the iron. They're made by Prometheus. Bogner had a bunch of bad PTs from Classic Tone in the Helios. It happens. I've heard of a Diezel or two that broke down due to bad iron. Mesa, Marshall, Bad Cat... they've all had issues over the years with various parts. Nothing is perfect. Heyboer has put out some bad iron at some point. PTs that hum and vibrate. I had a bad O'Netics PT in a build I did and had to replace it.

You're welcome to your opinion. I'm just taking issue with someone claiming they are built with "the absolute worst" of everything.

 

[Racerxrated]

The last part, I said this a couple years back when the certain former modder/current builder's products started sounding MUCH better IMO...that it has a TON to do with working with those Cameron circuits for that last Cameron run.
No disrespect intended, anyone would have sponged up tips/tricks that they learned from Cameron. But the timing/coincidence is just WAY too obvious.

Who are the certain modders / builders who make better sounding amps?
Just curious...

Before all the Fanbois get their thongs in a bunch, I'll say that Dave Friedman makes some great products and is very helpful to everyone who has owned and even not owned his amps.

That said, the timing of when his line of amps started sounding really killer coincides just after the King/Cameron/Friedman/Metro debacle. I've played lots of different Friedman modded Marshalls, owned 2 and 1 BE 100 that had been modded by Dave later to be more open sounding. I've also played EVERY version of what he offers now except the Butterslax. Did he pick up any circuit tips or new to him ways of approaching amp circuits? I don't know, this is just speculation.
But the timing seems to suggest it.

And like I said before, if Dave did he'd be foolish not to implement SOME of what he might have learned.
There is a reason Cameron modded Marshalls last half a day when they come up. Everything else just languishes forever.

Again, no offense intended to Dave F or his fans.

 

[Racerxrated]

"I've built 4 of these amps now. All using different iron: Merren, Marstran (Heyboer, Classic Tone, and the stock Ceriatone iron. Guess what. Not a lot of difference either way. People like to scream and yell about transformers being the end all be all of guitar mojo. No. Sorry. It's all BS. And if you're really making the claim that Ceriatone's amps are built with sub-par, "absolute worst" components, then you're full of it too. So yeah... prove it. "

Couple things i disagree with. First off, I absolutely DO believe transformers make a difference. Maybe you are saying in new builds, or new vs vintage? IMO in vintage vs new or reissue amps, like a JCM 800 or Jubilee RI, when you get those to gig or beyond volume the vintage one ALWAYS sounds better, and obviously so TO ME. So I believe in the transformer difference. Now, maybe component value drift or the aging of the circuit has more to do with that? I don't know but what I do know is what I hear. YMMV.

Man, I'm talking about the magic mojo pixie dust people think exists. Of course iron makes a sonic difference. But it's not anything special or mythical. It's the same difference between pickups. Some sound good, some sound great, some sound ok. But I've not encountered a set of iron that made an amp sound bad.

The other item I have personal experience with is the one Ceriatone I owned the PT went out at a gig. It was the stock Ceriatone. The previous owner was a longtime RTer here and swore he never mismatched cabs, and the tubes were new. It was a Fortin Cali mod, and Mike was great in helping my local guy replace with a classictone. Didn't sound much different, but was a killer amp.
That experience is enough that if I were to order a Ceriatone, I'd order without the trannys.

I'd have to ask: who built the amp? Was it built by Ceriatone? You say it was a Fortin Cali mod? I don't understand. So... Ceriatone built the amp, then a third-party modified it? Then it changed hands? And then the PT went out on you? Ok... well it happens. Every single amp builder out there has had an amp break down. One bad PT out of the thousands and thousands of amps Ceriatone has sold over the years doesn't mean a lot. Sorry your amp broke. That's besides the point I'm making here. Ceriatone doesn't make the iron. They're made by Prometheus. Bogner had a bunch of bad PTs from Classic Tone in the Helios. It happens. I've heard of a Diezel or two that broke down due to bad iron. Mesa, Marshall, Bad Cat... they've all had issues over the years with various parts. Nothing is perfect. Heyboer has put out some bad iron at some point. PTs that hum and vibrate. I had a bad O'Netics PT in a build I did and had to replace it.

You're welcome to your opinion. I'm just taking issue with someone claiming they are built with "the absolute worst" of everything.

It was built by Ceriatone, then shipped directly to Mike Fortin for his Cali mod. At least that's what I was told. And again, who knows how it was treated before I got it.

But after this happened I looked up this issue on the web and found others who had issues with the stock Ceriatone transformers. Again, not trying to rip on them but after my experience I wouldn't get one with their transformers, simple enough to order one without and save some cash in the process by going with Classictone.
I think they sound good and wouldn't have a problem ordering one sans trannys.

 

[Alex_S]

Ok, first: I have neither the knowledge nor the experience with either product to add anything meaningful, besides what you (FourT6and2) write sounds VERY reasonable and balanced. But these two comments are the best I've read in months in this forum

... I'm telling myself I should stay out of this thread. But I guess I'm either bored or just plain stupid...

... It's a power switch. It's not going to make or break your ability to play the same Van Halen riff in your basement over and over again for 28 years.

 

[Chester Nimitz]

I thought it was Jose' ...

Jose was from Argentina, NOT Mexico.

 

[FourT6and2]

"I've built 4 of these amps now. All using different iron: Merren, Marstran (Heyboer, Classic Tone, and the stock Ceriatone iron. Guess what. Not a lot of difference either way. People like to scream and yell about transformers being the end all be all of guitar mojo. No. Sorry. It's all BS. And if you're really making the claim that Ceriatone's amps are built with sub-par, "absolute worst" components, then you're full of it too. So yeah... prove it. "

Couple things i disagree with. First off, I absolutely DO believe transformers make a difference. Maybe you are saying in new builds, or new vs vintage? IMO in vintage vs new or reissue amps, like a JCM 800 or Jubilee RI, when you get those to gig or beyond volume the vintage one ALWAYS sounds better, and obviously so TO ME. So I believe in the transformer difference. Now, maybe component value drift or the aging of the circuit has more to do with that? I don't know but what I do know is what I hear. YMMV.

Man, I'm talking about the magic mojo pixie dust people think exists. Of course iron makes a sonic difference. But it's not anything special or mythical. It's the same difference between pickups. Some sound good, some sound great, some sound ok. But I've not encountered a set of iron that made an amp sound bad.

The other item I have personal experience with is the one Ceriatone I owned the PT went out at a gig. It was the stock Ceriatone. The previous owner was a longtime RTer here and swore he never mismatched cabs, and the tubes were new. It was a Fortin Cali mod, and Mike was great in helping my local guy replace with a classictone. Didn't sound much different, but was a killer amp.
That experience is enough that if I were to order a Ceriatone, I'd order without the trannys.

I'd have to ask: who built the amp? Was it built by Ceriatone? You say it was a Fortin Cali mod? I don't understand. So... Ceriatone built the amp, then a third-party modified it? Then it changed hands? And then the PT went out on you? Ok... well it happens. Every single amp builder out there has had an amp break down. One bad PT out of the thousands and thousands of amps Ceriatone has sold over the years doesn't mean a lot. Sorry your amp broke. That's besides the point I'm making here. Ceriatone doesn't make the iron. They're made by Prometheus. Bogner had a bunch of bad PTs from Classic Tone in the Helios. It happens. I've heard of a Diezel or two that broke down due to bad iron. Mesa, Marshall, Bad Cat... they've all had issues over the years with various parts. Nothing is perfect. Heyboer has put out some bad iron at some point. PTs that hum and vibrate. I had a bad O'Netics PT in a build I did and had to replace it.

You're welcome to your opinion. I'm just taking issue with someone claiming they are built with "the absolute worst" of everything.

It was built by Ceriatone, then shipped directly to Mike Fortin for his Cali mod. At least that's what I was told. And again, who knows how it was treated before I got it.

But after this happened I looked up this issue on the web and found others who had issues with the stock Ceriatone transformers. Again, not trying to rip on them but after my experience I wouldn't get one with their transformers, simple enough to order one without and save some cash in the process by going with Classictone.
I think they sound good and wouldn't have a problem ordering one sans trannys.

What was the stock amp? A Chupacabra? Or a 2203/04 or JMP or something? That's kinda cool he was willing to work on it, not being a Marshall. How'd the amp turn out in the end?

 

[milkchickenbomb]

It's a power switch. It's not going to make or break your ability to play the same Van Halen riff in your basement over and over again for 28 years.

Great post BTW. I wondered about Ceriatone's components, and this is great info. Thank you.

 

[Chester Nimitz]

Buzz-zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz-zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz-zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ...

 

[Zachman]

LOL ... If its not covered in silicone its not a Cameron.

Still have my ungooped Cameron modded High gain Jose SLP 100 watter, and have had 2 others non-gooped. My Atomica is the NAMM prototype and is also non-gooped.

 

[Zachman]

There are many decaffeinated brands on the market that claim to be as good as the real thing. They're not, though perhaps great in their own right, BUT Not the same.

-EXACTLY!!!- (or in this case,.. -exZACtly-)

-there isn't a -(CAMERON CLONE)- that's even in the same galaxy, to what its feebley trying to, but failing to "clone", and not just a little either, like FUCKIN-UGE!!!.. Epidemic proportions, yup!! CERITONE!! what joke, even worse than chibson, not only is the circuit completely wrong, its 100% wrong! so wrong, its as if they went out of there way to be wrong!!.. is it no wonder that it not only sounds nothing like a CAMERON, it just sounds bad.. -built with the absolute worst of everything, not just the components that effect tone,
-It's more than apparent to me, that the amps that are built by even good tech's, with the blueprints of the amp, the exact components, only difference being the builder, MARK CAMERON's amp will sound & feel much better!!!

-there's one very obvious example of this, and apparently, no one noticed, or connected the dots, or? who knows, he's a highly regarded, very sought after, a former modder, now amp builder/manufacturer.... that is the EPITOME of the abovementioned, seems over night his stuff went from good, to DAM!!!!!... anyways, if you think its " just as good". well,.. then rock that bitch! enjoy your amp!!..

The last part, I said this a couple years back when the certain former modder/current builder's products started sounding MUCH better IMO...that it has a TON to do with working with those Cameron circuits for that last Cameron run.
No disrespect intended, anyone would have sponged up tips/tricks that they learned from Cameron. But the timing/coincidence is just WAY too obvious.

When A/B testing the Atomic and the BE100, I was able to dial in the BE100 tone I liked on the Cameron, but not the other way around. Both great amps, but 'different'. To me, the BE100 sounds like a GREAT sounding Marshall, and the Cameron Atomica sounds like the best Marshall that Marshall never made, yet has a responsiveness like a MKIII Boogie.