Gear just ain't moving eh?

[steve_k]

Certain collectables, rare items and higher end gear still moves quite easily in some circles and retains value. Production run stuff is a dime a dozen and is still in a downward spiral. Serious buyers and sellers know the score. Flipping gear is a thing of the past. For most of that, the masses are generally just window shopping and wishing and most mostly commenting on something they know nothing about nor have a snowball's chance in hell of buying because they feel like it keeps them fresh in the marketplace.

 

[xGYPSYx]

Gear is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Regardless of how cool you think it is, it's only as cool as a buyer thinks it is.

Sellers suddenly turn into the biggest cork sniffers, and the seller side of me wishes that there was a sucker born for each of you but the buyer side of me knows that never in the history of geardo's and amp whores has the buyer had more tools available to _keep_ him from being said sucker.

Anyone w/ a phone can know in 3 seconds that your overpriced piece of shit w/ "kustum paynt, reel toobz sound" that was just checked out by your areas "bestest supuh pro T3ch appraiser genius" and certified worth "real money lots of $$$$$" so the buyer should be lucky to get this "squipephone raredelux" for the one time price of 12,963.85, no lowballers or tire kickers" isn't worth the digital adspace it's printed on.

1. Buying new, you lose 25-40% of the sticker walking out the door
2. Hardware adds value - Wrong. Pickups/tuners/bridges/hardware do not add value (in fact, no longer stock, value loss)
3. "Kustom Paynt" - No one gives a shit about the airbrushed picture of a velociraptor shooting a machine gun flying on a red white and blue eagle against a twisty checkerboard blackhole , that you paid 1500 bucks to have "Lil'spritzy" the neighborhood tattoo artist put on your 150 dollar guitar. Same goes for swirls, splatters, relic'ing and any application of a skulls, flames, skeletons, gothic text or combination thereof.
4. Certified by So and So - appraisals are bullshit. No one cares what the guy who carried gear for van halen once thinks of your piece of shit...and Of course when you have something appraised it's high. They want your stupid jerry ass to come back to'em. If it's such screaming fucking deal, the appraiser will buy it and flip it.....Appraiser thinks your 7/10 mexi strat is worth 4200 but isn't interested? go fuckin' figure.

Good gear is still moving....at good prices....the problem is that you guys weren't savvy buyers or savvy consumers period. The best exit strategy is determined a priori. The panicky bullshit you guys come up with as the first harsh rays of reality begin to spill onto your bad decision is nothing short of comic gold. We can almost hear you stammering as you type "upgraded fine thread 9/32 good alloy screws used in advanced polymer pickup retention fence upgrade." Smart buyers know why you blow up on us, because our buying savvy shines in direct contrast to your poor decisions. It's a slap in the face that we know the worth of an object and won't buy your bullshit in any sense. The butt hurt just flows off you.

In closing, let me re-iterate: The worth of anything is determined by what people are willing to pay for it. You can either wait for your sucker, which I'd like to ad there are less of every day, or you can accept that you should be a more savvy consumer in the future and quit getting bent out of shape.

Either way, to all of you sellers who are so proud of your gear and the buyers who call'em on their bullshit which in turn supplies us with this top notch entertainment....thanks for the lulz fellas.

 

[legend71]

Nuff' Said!!!

 

[gtrplr71]

Old gear and quality gear is just slow right now it took me a month to move a 100% condition Princeton but you just have to wade threw trolls and scammers on CL. The right buyer will show up eventually.

 

[dfrattaroli]

1. Buying new, you lose 25-40% of the sticker walking out the door
2. Hardware adds value - Wrong. Pickups/tuners/bridges/hardware do not add value (in fact, no longer stock, value loss)
3. "Kustom Paynt" - No one gives a shit about the airbrushed picture of a velociraptor shooting a machine gun flying on a red white and blue eagle against a twisty checkerboard blackhole , that you paid 1500 bucks to have "Lil'spritzy" the neighborhood tattoo artist put on your 150 dollar guitar. Same goes for swirls, splatters, relic'ing and any application of a skulls, flames, skeletons, gothic text or combination thereof.
4. Certified by So and So - appraisals are bullshit. No one cares what the guy who carried gear for van halen once thinks of your piece of shit...and Of course when you have something appraised it's high. They want your stupid jerry ass to come back to'em. If it's such screaming fucking deal, the appraiser will buy it and flip it.....Appraiser thinks your 7/10 mexi strat is worth 4200 but isn't interested? go fuckin' figure.

I agree with 3 and 4. One and 2 are often, but not always, wrong IMO. Here are the facts:

1. Some sellers over value their gear for sale.
2. Some buyers are cheap fucks and think everyone is as stupid as they are.

 

[JimAnsell]

Selling gear now, vs say 6 or more hears ago, is 100% different.
I'm glad i got in and out of my gear flipping during its hey day. 2003-2009 ish... was an amazing time for me. In that time, i probably owned 200+ different amps, 150 different guitars, 125-150 pedals, easily over 50 speaker cabinets, etc. Mics, daws, interfaces, rack gear, PA's, etc. You name it, i had it, and if i liked it, i had it at least twice. It was a rarity to take a financial hit on anything. i almost always at least broke even, and often make several hundred, occaisionally a thousand or more on a single deal. I took my girlfriend (now wife) on a two vacations, and even bought her wedding ring with gear sale profits. I was using 3 different credit cards to buy on, and i'd always hit my monthly payments, and pay them all off in bulk when the time was right. So by playing with gear all the time, i was also building my credit, so when i went to buy a house, i got a great interest rate, and no trouble at all getting a loan. it was a sweet time for sure...

Now, when i do flip gear, its only because i need to get rid of something to pay the bills or something for the kids, and i'm lucky to just break even. i almost always take a hit to some small degree on most of the things i sell now.

I have a folder on my hard drive over a GB large of photos of alot of this stuff, its fun to look at it all now, and swear about how i wish i still had this or that

 

[Stumplegriltskin]

Well, I sold teh sum bitch for $140.
It's not so much the loss that gets me as I don't like when cheap fucks get a deal.

But as I said, shit ain't movin like it use to. I figured, being it's tax season, folks would be out to spend. But usually I sell shit a little better than a Squier.

I don't know basses, but this thing, with the new tuners on it was a solid bass IMO.

Now I got some guy that wants to take a train from NJ up to MA to buy a BC Rich Stealth 7 I'm selling for $350
Refuse to put stuff on Ebay any more. That's a whole another discussion.

 

[xGYPSYx]

1. Buying new, you lose 25-40% of the sticker walking out the door
2. Hardware adds value - Wrong. Pickups/tuners/bridges/hardware do not add value (in fact, no longer stock, value loss)
3. "Kustom Paynt" - No one gives a shit about the airbrushed picture of a velociraptor shooting a machine gun flying on a red white and blue eagle against a twisty checkerboard blackhole , that you paid 1500 bucks to have "Lil'spritzy" the neighborhood tattoo artist put on your 150 dollar guitar. Same goes for swirls, splatters, relic'ing and any application of a skulls, flames, skeletons, gothic text or combination thereof.
4. Certified by So and So - appraisals are bullshit. No one cares what the guy who carried gear for van halen once thinks of your piece of shit...and Of course when you have something appraised it's high. They want your stupid jerry ass to come back to'em. If it's such screaming fucking deal, the appraiser will buy it and flip it.....Appraiser thinks your 7/10 mexi strat is worth 4200 but isn't interested? go fuckin' figure.

I agree with 3 and 4. One and 2 are often, but not always, wrong IMO. Here are the facts:

1. Some sellers over value their gear for sale.
2. Some buyers are cheap fucks and think everyone is as stupid as they are.

Ah yes, a very clearly presented and well supported counter point. The old thumbs in ears waggle + tongue sticking out negation. Well played sir.

Well, to take a page out of your book allow me to rebutt: No you're wrong.



Now to go back to my book, where I don't just stick my tongue out and claim you're wrong and acting like that makes it so, here's why, even though I already explained it in my initial post. 1 & 2 are general rules, there are exceptions but those are the rarities.

1. Sticker markup "new" vs "pre owned." The moment you purchase anything it is now pre-owned. There are exceptions for very rare items which can be resold at close to or sometimes even more than what was initially payed. There is a "new" premium for being the first person to fingerbang whatever it is you're trying to get your paws on and that's the difference between new and used prices. Used prices is the actual item value, not item value + brand new premium. Cars, guitars, tools, helicopters, guns, private islands, top shelf hookers and all manner of big boy toys are subject to this rule.....everywhere. No one pays new premium for something that already has someone else' fingerprints all over it.

2. Hardware upgrades - you're ruining the stock configuration and the chances that you ruin it in a way that is acceptable are slim to none. In certain instances there are sweeping upgrades that find favor in numbers, these are good bets. Old school ML's w/ the original bill lawrence pickups come to mind. Certain LS1,LS7,LSX turbo/supercharger configurations. Any island near a nude beach that you install spotting scopes next to the hammocks. However, again, exception, not rule. You know why a 68 numbers matching camaro SS is worth 200k but you can only get about 70 for that all chrome, LS1 w/ ABS and AC? Because one is original....and original almost always holds value better than modded (again, unless you find the guy who like you, always dreamed of airbrushing a velociraptor on that '59 LP.)

Now if you'd like to disagree, and you are more than welcome to, after you place your thumbs in your ears and waggle your hands, but before you stick your tongue out, you need to explain _why_ you disagree. I'm sure in your neck of the woods just saying "hey nuh-uh!" passes for a well supported argument but I have bad news....it is not. The key component in voicing a counterpoint is the supporting statement wherein you outline _why_ you disagree.

Good luck and Cheers!~






OP, grats on the sale!

 

[Shebazz]

No one gives a shit about the airbrushed picture of a velociraptor shooting a machine gun flying on a red white and blue eagle against a twisty checkerboard blackhole , that you paid 1500 bucks to have "Lil'spritzy" the neighborhood tattoo artist put on your 150 dollar guitar. Same goes for swirls, splatters, relic'ing and any application of a skulls, flames, skeletons, gothic text or combination thereof.

 

[Candiria]

2. Hardware upgrades - you're ruining the stock configuration and the chances that you ruin it in a way that is acceptable are slim to none. In certain instances there are sweeping upgrades that find favor in numbers, these are good bets. Old school ML's w/ the original bill lawrence pickups come to mind. Certain LS1,LS7,LSX turbo/supercharger configurations. Any island near a nude beach that you install spotting scopes next to the hammocks. However, again, exception, not rule. You know why a 68 numbers matching camaro SS is worth 200k but you can only get about 70 for that all chrome, LS1 w/ ABS and AC? Because one is original....and original almost always holds value better than modded (again, unless you find the guy who like you, always dreamed of airbrushing a velociraptor on that '59 LP.)

I disagree with this sentiment. I think that upgrades can go either way depending on what kind of gear it is and what kind of mod you had done. For instance:

1) Boutique pickups can add value to regular guitar
2) Standard Duncan/Dimarzio pickups can add value to a mid level guitar or something like a prestige Ibanez that comes with crappy pickups
3) Locking tuner upgrades can add value
4) An upgrade to a Original Floyd from a licensed will add value unless it looks shoddy
5) Amp mods done by a well known shop can add value

Again this is all dependent on what you're modding. The example you give of an old Camaro is the exception, it's the '59 Les Paul. You don't mod that...no one mods that. People mod MIJ Jacksons, and Ibanez stuff, and American standard strats etc. Getting a mod done to a 3 channel Rec by your local shop will decrease value, getting it done by a well known amp builder will increase value. Getting a Pre 500 recto moded by anyone, maybe asides from Mesa, will decrease value.

I think in general mods add value to most things. When it's done to the super cheap stuff it doesn't help, and when it's done on rare stuff it hurts. However, a proper mod will help all the gear that falls in the middle. That said I think sellers have the problem of saying "I put $300 pickups into this guitar, it sells used for $600, I need to get $900 for it." It doesn't work like that. Those pickups may add value, but it's not going to have that large of an effect. I would never suggest someone spending extra money to swap pickups in order to sell a guitar. The ROI isn't there.

 

[xGYPSYx]

2. Hardware upgrades - you're ruining the stock configuration and the chances that you ruin it in a way that is acceptable are slim to none. In certain instances there are sweeping upgrades that find favor in numbers, these are good bets. Old school ML's w/ the original bill lawrence pickups come to mind. Certain LS1,LS7,LSX turbo/supercharger configurations. Any island near a nude beach that you install spotting scopes next to the hammocks. However, again, exception, not rule. You know why a 68 numbers matching camaro SS is worth 200k but you can only get about 70 for that all chrome, LS1 w/ ABS and AC? Because one is original....and original almost always holds value better than modded (again, unless you find the guy who like you, always dreamed of airbrushing a velociraptor on that '59 LP.)

I disagree with this sentiment. I think that upgrades can go either way depending on what kind of gear it is and what kind of mod you had done. For instance:

[/quote]

I don't think you do actually....... You're about to do a beautiful job of proving my point....lets continue.

1) Boutique pickups can add value to regular guitar
2) Standard Duncan/Dimarzio pickups can add value to a mid level guitar or something like a prestige Ibanez that comes with crappy pickups
3) Locking tuner upgrades can add value
4) An upgrade to a Original Floyd from a licensed will add value unless it looks shoddy
5) Amp mods done by a well known shop can add value

Emphasis mine.

You know what can means right? Has potential.....which I admitted in my OP that certain mods have potential (you may have missed that part....). The difference between a rule and an exception is the difference between a statement and a statement of potential. You just listed a lot of potentials......

I think in general mods add value to most things. When it's done to the super cheap stuff it doesn't help, and when it's done on rare stuff it hurts.

So in 2 out 3 scenarios my rule holds true?......my general rule to which I claim there are certain exceptions.....

What do you think there are more of.....Super cheap + rare (under a grand, over 4) or middle ground (over 1K under 4).....Before you answer that let me give you some bad news....there's a reason why guitar center has a full acre of 100 dollar strat copies in every store.

However, a proper mod will help all the gear that falls in the middle.

So you do understand the difference between a statement and a statement of potential....kinda. Your weasel word "proper" is the give away though. "proper" mods are not the rule. They are the exception. There are more people who don't know what they're doing than there are people who do. In order to support the principal of this statement that's what you have to prove. In order for this to be the rule and not he exception more people would have to be savvy consumers/modders than not. Sorry pal. That dog aint gonna hunt.



All in all though you couldn't have supported my position any better if you'd been on payroll, IDRGAF about this...your post is riddled with support for my position, your language is proof....whether you admit or not is of no consequence and whether you agree or not is of no consequence. I don't play around with stupid sellers and I'm a savvy modder/consumer....My thoughts are really for the proud sellers who don't understand why lil'spritzy's sweet airbrushing skills aint bringin' in the bucks.


Good luck all,

Gypsy

 

[Candiria]

First off, I used the word can because I do not speak in absolutes often, as very few absolutes exist in life. All of those situations will add value if the install isn't botched, and proper installs are nowhere near as foreign as you try to make it seem:

2. Hardware upgrades - you're ruining the stock configuration and the chances that you ruin it in a way that is acceptable are slim to none.

You said upgrading hardware has little to no chance of adding value, which is just flat out wrong. Your "rule" holds for 2 out of the three scenarios, but those 2 are the minority of situations: the very cheap and the very expensive (Normal Distribution). Your breakout of the categories in which gear falls makes little sense. A $900 used guitar is not cheap, let a lone super cheap. Hell a $900 new guitar isn't cheap. You'd be hard pressed to find people that would agree that something like a $600 used guitar is super cheap. I'm talking about things like no names or Squiers, Ibanez GIO etc., not a $500 used LTD EC-1000.

Basically all I'm saying is that there's a ton of people who know how to do basic mods like installing pickups or tuners, and there's a ton of techs that can do it for them if they don't. Doing those things to mid level guitars increases their value. I've seen way more Ibanez RG's with Bare Knuckles in them than I've seen with spray painted refinishes, and those guitars with expensive pickups are going to sell for more money than their stock counterparts.

 

[RockyStar]

Gear will move if it is priced right. It may take some time but it will move.

 

[xGYPSYx]

In order for this to be the rule and not he exception more people would have to be savvy consumers/modders than not.

Basically all I'm saying is that there's a ton of people who know how to do basic mods like installing pickups or tuners, and there's a ton of techs that can do it for them if they don't.

Wait wut??? You're gonna double down on that huh? You a special kind of special aren't ya.

You're actually going to go down the "more people know what they're doing with mods than do not" road? Now I freely concede we live in the information age....but dear god we've never been stupider (a wise man may cite this exchange as proof one way or another).

So your of the opinion that more people know how to mod in order to add or retain value, than know how to fuck it up? Like you're confident enough that you just said that in public.... where people can see your name attached to what you write.....and now i've quoted it so you can't delete it....that's your story?!?!?!

 

[Candiria]

Wait wut??? You're gonna double down on that huh? You a special kind of special aren't ya.

You're actually going to go down the "more people know what they're doing with mods than do not" road? Now I freely concede we live in the information age....but dear god we've never been stupider (a wise man may cite this exchange as proof one way or another).

So your of the opinion that more people know how to mod in order to add or retain value, than know how to fuck it up? Like you're confident enough that you just said that in public.... where people can see your name attached to what you write.....and now i've quoted it so you can't delete it....that's your story?!?!?!

You can be as dramatic about this as you want, but it doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.

I never said more people know how to mod in order to retain value, I said a lot do. Which is true considering modding a guitar is really friggin easy. I also said that there's a ton of techs out there for people who want to mod their stuff, but don't know how to, which is also true. You seriously think that guys buying upgrades can't put in pickups or don't know of a tech that would do the install for them?

For reference, this is what you said:

2. Hardware adds value - Wrong. Pickups/tuners/bridges/hardware do not add value (in fact, no longer stock, value loss)

Followed up by:

2. Hardware upgrades - you're ruining the stock configuration and the chances that you ruin it in a way that is acceptable are slim to none.

Both of these assertions are flat out wrong, and you are much more likely to find a used guitar with properly installed pickups, and tuners than you are to find one that's been botched to the point of detracting from the guitar's value. If someone cares enough to purchase $200-300 pickups, and $150 tuners they're more often than not going to care enough to have them installed properly.

For instance, this guitar sold for $700. It has pickup upgrades.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ibanez-Iron...432?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3aa71c1828

While the same guitar in pristine stock configuration!!! sold for $579.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-Ibanez...y-/331503774705?pt=Guitar&hash=item4d2f2a2bf1

And that stock guitar came with EMG's, not even shitty "designed by" stuff. I guess you should go tell the more schmuck that paid more to have a set of boutique pickups already installed in the guitar when he got it that he's a sucker.

You can come back with another comment that hit's the trifecta of being long winded, condescending, and unfunny, if you want..that's fine. I know that you're going to keep on keeping on because you're one of those guys that loves to see his comments on the internet, but I'm sure this conversation has reached the point of being annoying to other posters, so I'm done.

 

[Beyond Black]

Candiria-1
xGYPSYx-0

 

[The Hiryuu]

I get people that email me "hey man, got no car."

I'm at the point where I've weeded out all the losers in my life. If you're 30-40 and you've got no car, go fuck yourself I don't want to deal with you. Heh, I'm on a tear today. Got a work bonus and the gubmt stole 1/2 of it. Pretty pissed off.

Are the people in Boston? It's semi-common for people inside the city not to bother owning a car because public transport can get them wherever they want.

 

[xGYPSYx]

Wait wut??? You're gonna double down on that huh? You a special kind of special aren't ya.

You're actually going to go down the "more people know what they're doing with mods than do not" road? Now I freely concede we live in the information age....but dear god we've never been stupider (a wise man may cite this exchange as proof one way or another).

So your of the opinion that more people know how to mod in order to add or retain value, than know how to fuck it up? Like you're confident enough that you just said that in public.... where people can see your name attached to what you write.....and now i've quoted it so you can't delete it....that's your story?!?!?!

You can be as dramatic about this as you want, but it doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.

I never said more people know how to mod in order to retain value, I said a lot do.

In order for it be a general rule it has to tip one way or the other holmes. Either more people are mod savvy, or they're not. It's really that simple. Are you now trying to say that "a lot" = less people?

Which is true considering modding a guitar is really friggin easy. I also said that there's a ton of techs out there for people who want to mod their stuff, but don't know how to, which is also true. You seriously think that guys buying upgrades can't put in pickups or don't know of a tech that would do the install for them?

That's was never the question...and it's an irrelevant variation on the principle. Either more people know what they're doing with respect to modding or they don't. Which means as a rule it's a good idea (as far as maintaining equity is concerned) to mod or not. Whether mods are easy, or done personally is of no consequence as it all falls under being savvy or not.

For reference, this is what you said:

2. Hardware adds value - Wrong. Pickups/tuners/bridges/hardware do not add value (in fact, no longer stock, value loss)

Followed up by:

2. Hardware upgrades - you're ruining the stock configuration and the chances that you ruin it in a way that is acceptable are slim to none.

Both of these assertions are flat out wrong, and you are much more likely to find a used guitar with properly installed pickups, and tuners than you are to find one that's been botched to the point of detracting from the guitar's value. If someone cares enough to purchase $200-300 pickups, and $150 tuners they're more often than not going to care enough to have them installed properly.

They're not wrong, To say they're flat out wrong is retarded. You switch the hardware on a 20 year old LP and you lose value. Or a 30 year old fender. Or a 50 year old whatever. Fact.

For instance, this guitar sold for $700. It has pickup upgrades.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ibanez-Iron...432?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3aa71c1828

While the same guitar in pristine stock configuration!!! sold for $579.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-Ibanez...y-/331503774705?pt=Guitar&hash=item4d2f2a2bf1

And that stock guitar came with EMG's, not even shitty "designed by" stuff. I guess you should go tell the more schmuck that paid more to have a set of boutique pickups already installed in the guitar when he got it that he's a sucker.

Sorry junior....one instance is an exception. Not a rule. I think you have those 2 confused. Because you miss the global point horribly. This is all about a general rule....being that it isn't a black and white subject and that any mod, no matter how popular with what amount of people is always subjective. As a general rule, you're going to lose value. That's it. That's the truth. I admitted in my OP there were exceptions. You listed several of them...they were good.....but that's not a rule. One good example isn't a rule....it's a good example of an exception. Does that make sense?

The rule exists because the number of mod savvy people is smaller than the the un savvy crowd. If you are of the opinion that more people are mod savvy then your viewpoints are all congruent. But you can't make your claim (that as a general rule hardware upgrades increase value) without that backing principle. Do you understand that? That's really what this all boils down to. I don't care if you disagree, but you gotta be consistent in application of your principle.

It's a classic if/then

If your principle is that hardware upgrades as a rule (in the majority of instances) increase value, then as a general rule more people must be mod savvy.

That's the statement you're trying to support.

You can come back with another comment that hit's the trifecta of being long winded, condescending, and unfunny, if you want..that's fine. I know that you're going to keep on keeping on because you're one of those guys that loves to see his comments on the internet, but I'm sure this conversation has reached the point of being annoying to other posters, so I'm done.

Ah yes, the old pre-emptive permission/overt-insult/I-don't-care-about-this-but-I-do disclaimer. A time honored classic. Speaking of time, I'm honored that you took the time to tell me how you feel about me! Info well received sir.

I suppose the best response to this is that it takes one to know one bro.

 

[Stumplegriltskin]

Some schlump came and took the Squire away for $120.
Now I have a $900 BC Rich Stealth 7 going tomorrow for 3 Fiddy.

Nothing feels as good as losing your shirt

Feel like stabbing these fuckers in the neck on the way out

I never get a deal, so nobody else should either.

 

[Badronald]

Some things move ok, but generally the economy sucks and it is slow.