John4021 Ghosted me with missing money on guitar

[S̷͖͑m̵͎͂á̵̺s̸͚̈́h̴̬̑]

Yeah. Im not taking sides. Im just reserving judgment. I like innogator. I also like John. I hate the situation, but I and a lot of you are ignorant of all the facts. We can make assumptions on what we see, but i dont see the rush.

 

[DanTravis62]

Yeah. Im not taking sides. Im just reserving judgment. I like innogator. I also like John. I hate the situation, but I and a lot of you are ignorant of all the facts. We can make assumptions on what we see, but i dont see the rush.

I have my opinions, but it's not my deal, and this was before I was a mod if people want answers

 

[innogator]

Despite the deal, probably not doing yourself any favors doxxing him.
Unless of course he gave you permission.
I would have bought that guitar off of you, but no responses.

What's the better route? Let him steal money from me without saying anything? He hasn't messaged me back since Feb 20, not like we had a healthy conversation going about fixing the situation.

 

[innogator]

No response eh

odd

I think he might be referring to the comments in the thread when it was going down and people asking if the guitar was for sale.

We actually did discuss that as an option, having a third party buy the guitar if wanted but the logistics were tough with that

 

[NowYou'rePlayingWithPower]

Some don't care to, and some of the demands get kind of old.

It can be a bit silly assuming everyone is an alt.

You do you, it's cool.

I don't take anything too seriously. Including this place.

My points are more about the general reaction of multiple users, in regards to this and assuming the buyer is in the wrong.

I don't care who does business with whom, it doesn't affect me.

To be clear, I don't assume everyone is an alt or make demands.
Have to read it in Daria sarcasm, not serious or really care.
Just poking fun.

 

[innogator]

To be clear, I don't assume everyone is an alt or make demands.
Have to read it in Daria sarcasm, not serious or really care.
Just poking fun.

All good. Nothing taken personally on my end. And fwiw, as I mentioned earlier, I completely get this doesn't make me look good. That's the unfortunate downside, but I had no other route than to call him out publicly.

 

[innogator]

Yeah. Im not taking sides. Im just reserving judgment. I like innogator. I also like John. I hate the situation, but I and a lot of you are ignorant of all the facts. We can make assumptions on what we see, but i dont see the rush.

You might not like me so much if I buy that MGL out from under you that you're wanting lol. I've had my eye on that too after I saw you raving about them.

 

[marvcus]

this dude is out of his mind,


I took the Jackson to a Luthier that fixed small cracks,
This guy is known for his workmanship and does vintage guitar work.
Real talented guy.
Plays great now as it did back then

Great. Let’s see the hi-res pics of the guitar’s condition. Headstock, neck, body. Since it’s in such great condition, shouldn’t be an issue, right?

 

[S̷͖͑m̵͎͂á̵̺s̸͚̈́h̴̬̑]

You might not like me so much if I buy that MGL out from under you that you're wanting lol. I've had my eye on that too after I saw you raving about them.

You wont be disappointed. Mark is doing something special

 

[innogator]

Honestly I'd welcome some mod feedback on the situation. I'd even be down to jump on a video call and talk through it, show any proof or chat history real time, and answer any questions if that would help at all.

 

[UltraGary]

Nobody should care, but I believe the OP on this. It's unfortunate that John's online friendships with the mods here have turned this into such a 'confusing situation' on what's always been a good board for these types of things. There are many threads that date back years that have served buyers well from potential scam situations, yet this guy's got deleted long before becoming the shit show others have. Now OP has nicely laid out his (very legit looking) info again, and the same guys are waltzing in here acting like a club he's not in and questioning if he's even a real person.

 

[NowYou'rePlayingWithPower]

So, is it for sale or not?

 

[japetus]

How much money is this really over? And now you are going to bring mods into question? These boards offer nothing than a post it note of sales to sell gear, as you would anywhere else. We make no profit from anything, period. So, if you beg for a moderation: here it is. Make it right between the two of you.

 

[Rayneman]

I thought the claim had been settled, funds returned, guitar returned.

Edit: I haven’t read this whole thing…

 

[innogator]

I'm out $183 but I've only asked John to refund $93 I'm owed since I originally said I would pay return shipping. And believe me, I've tried working it out with John. He's the one that chooses to ignore the situation and hope it goes away. The amount of money isn't the primary driver here, it's the complete lack of accountability of him. He had me blocked until I opened a PayPal dispute.

Don't know how you took my comment as calling mods into question but it's crazy to me that someone can show proof of being scammed out money in the community and people turn a blind eye. The rules talk about creating a system of honor and integrity, clearly neither of those have been shown in this situation. I understand this isn't Reverb, but I'm absolutely gonna call someone out for screwing me over on a deal and in my personal opinion, anyone that screws someone else shouldn't be allowed to participate in the community going forward.

 

[innogator]

I thought the claim had been settled, funds returned, guitar returned.

Edit: I haven’t read this whole thing…

The short of it is John invoiced me not accounting for fees $2650. He saw he was short and told me I needed to come up with $93 more. So I sent him a second payment. I fought through PayPal to get the $2650 back but he refuses to refund the rest. As I've mentioned multiple times, the money isn't even the primary driver at this point as it is someone not holding up their end of a deal.

 

[Monkey Man]

Before we go on a witch hunt, i would think there is a reason original thread has been deleted. And I would find out why before I jumped the gun. I still believe in John until the rest comes out

Maybe a mod will chime in then. For all we know they could have deleted it to save the last bit of dignity he may have, but I’d be willing to bet it was just so it didn’t turn into a shit slinging contest

Sure. Optics arent good. But it took a moderator to delete thread, and I trust our mods to only do so for good reason

Indeed.

So, if you beg for a moderation: here it is. Make it right between the two of you.

This.

If you guys want my opinion, here 'tis:

I believe Johnny didn't mean any harm. If the cracks were already-there he simply hadn't noticed them.
The thread painted a reputation-damaging picture of John as a seller.
The final reason I deleted it will not be disclosed in order to prevent either or both parties' incurring "reputational" damage.

So bottom line is I hope these guys can sort this last hurdle out. I've a feeling Johnny will fix him up. Layers of misunderstanding here.

 

[NowYou'rePlayingWithPower]

I'm out $183 but I've only asked John to refund $93 I'm owed since I originally said I would pay return shipping. And believe me, I've tried working it out with John. He's the one that chooses to ignore the situation and hope it goes away. The amount of money isn't the primary driver here, it's the complete lack of accountability of him. He had me blocked until I opened a PayPal dispute.

Don't know how you took my comment as calling mods into question but it's crazy to me that someone can show proof of being scammed out money in the community and people turn a blind eye. The rules talk about creating a system of honor and integrity, clearly neither of those have been shown in this situation. I understand this isn't Reverb, but I'm absolutely gonna call someone out for screwing me over on a deal and in my personal opinion, anyone that screws someone else shouldn't be allowed to participate in the community going forward.

Don't think anyone's turning a blind eye. The mods aren't judges or award parties in conflicts. You've done your part with this thread in explaining your perspective on your deal. Members are at liberty to do with it what we want. It's obvious some want to dog pile and other don't care. Asking the mods to resolve a situation they have no control over is like bitching to your mailman about the garbageman. I feel like your point has been put out there and people can move on with that how they will. For me even if all you say is accurate and true, it won't affect any future consideration I have in doing deals with him. Others it will. Don't take it personal. You always have real options that can take care of your issue. This isn't one of them, imo.

 

[JackBootedThug]

I wasn't a mod yet when this went down, but IIRC it was shut down because it became a shit-flinging contest.

@japetus @Monkey Man and @JackBootedThug i'm sure can provide more context

I have not been around as much lately but I think monkey locked it because it was a mess and both parties were talking with an intermediary on a solution. I think anyway….

 

[thegame]

Regarding the possibility of innocently overlooking the fretboard crack from fret 22 to 5; even if one didn’t see it, how could anyone not feel it? And even if that went unnoticed, how does anyone in good conscience ship a guitar without thoroughly inspecting it first? The responsibility for that, as well as for full disclosure, is on the seller, period.