Metal is getting worse and worse

[DanTravis62]

dude, i LOOOOOVE the production on The Red in the sky is ours, and With Fear I Kiss The Burning Darkness. its dry, raw, gritty, but the mix is still excellent. Thomas literally sounds like hes going to jump off the track and strangle you. When i first heard their come back album At War With Reality, that was the ONLY problem i had with it...Thomas sounds great, but he's not as "in your face" sounding as i wanted him to be. His performance sounds good, its just in the production i think. I love how those first two records have some super unorthodox riffs and harmonizing thanks to Alf Svensen. His other band Oxiplegatz is great too. Sidereal Journey is one of my favorite albums of all time. Super home made sounding, and it goes from ATG style riffs and aggression to this werid, erie, female vocaled, disney soundtrack sounding stuff and back. Its a concept album about ruining the planet and trying to find another one to inhabit. The other albums are a little more scatter brained, but all very interesting if you like that classic atg sound and want to hear it with some crazy experimentation.

I love the record (though i think WFIKTBD is a superior record, with a couple songs that are timeless classics like "raped by the light of christ") but it's objectively not a well-produced album

I love it anyways, because it's metal and it doesn't need to be super well produced to be effective in what they are trying to portray - there's a huge difference between that, and sounding shitty on purpose like bands try to do nowadays, especially death metal bands, as holy diver alluded to.

I think the music is so good on ATG first couple records it just kind of cancels it out, and gives it it's own vibe - kind of how @romanianreaper was saying, the fact that these bands had limited time, budget, and technology to get things done forced them to be creative with the tools they had available to them.

Alf Svensen is really, really underrated and he definitely gave ATG much more personality than they had in their more streamlined later records (though those are good too, in their way)

Totally agree with you there and that’s what I hate when bands have such bad production like it’s 1991 again. I recorded our buddies band with 3 sm57s around 2009 and their demo legitimately sounded on par with some of this stuff people seem to be doing on purpose.

I also actually am tired of that production too but at least it feels like more of an effort to actually sound good. Maybe it’s the same thing end of day just with a different target sound and it’s all lame and gay derivative nonsense. We might just be too saturated in general lol

I worked as an engineer for many years, and I've been forced to listen to this quacky drop Z, overproduced "modern metal" sound so much I have PTSD.
Even worse is when a band comes in and doesn't realize that youre going to be replacing all the drums with samples, and DIing all their guitar tracks to use the same bullshit everyone else uses to get it to sound like that.

It was old and lame and gay then like 20 fucking years ago, at this point it's like watching someone do the foxtrot and trying to pretend it's new and hip and you're really into it because its so fresh

 

[DanTravis62]

i hear you on that for sure, and Max is NOT a likable guy inside the scene thanks to his wife and him kinda fucking up sepultura, and soulfly was terrible apart from a few songs on the first record. i'd rather hear that than this bad, super gridded, super redundant, forgettable metal core that has totally over stayed its welcome. that shit hit the scene almost 25 years ago now, and the only progression its made is in the "cheating" production. Every few months we find out that some front man in one of these groups is dm'ing under aged girls, or saying something racist (Kublai Khan), or some dumb abusive shit (tim from as i lay dying hiring a hit man to try to kill his wife amongst other things)

I don't even consider anything related to "core" to be metal at this point

Ever since KSE and LOG and all these other bands that made the revolutionary decision to combine "slaughter of the soul" with the boring Pantera albums and call it "metalcore" the entire genre has been infested with poserdom, artificial sounding recordings, and terrible terrible people

It's like we are living in the shit universe reality where metal became infected with the AIDS of "hardcore" aesthetics and tropes, and there's another much better universe somewhere where metal actually evolved instead of devolved

 

[TheGreatGreen]

The thing about the andy sneap / nordstrom production is that I genuinely love that sound... but only when I hear it on records made when that sound was cutting edge. Back then it felt new, exciting, boundary pushing, like the people making that music knew more about what rocked than everybody else and were leading the way to something great.

Now that same sound these days just represents a done to death paint-by-numbers "spin the metal automation machine and just use whatever pops out the other end" kind of thing. It feels predictable. Oh look here's the "tough" breakdown part. Here's the 16th note programmed double kicks that last an entire verse so there's no dynamics, here's the guitar player with a high strapped headless 8 string with a weak right hand but he's got some nuclear blown out tone that makes his guitar sound like a bit crushed 8-bit nintendo game OR the weird super light strat position 2 going into a high gain amp kind of Polyphia sound, both of which kinda suck now. Oh look right on time here's the cookie monster vocals, wow how powerful I love when the guy sang those immortal words "uurf urf urf urf urf ooooof" man that really moves me.

 

[BABMusic]

I think I'm just becoming an old fart because every genre seems to be getting worse and worse. Most of what I find as "new" music is stuff that was recorded decades ago.

 

[DanTravis62]

The thing about the andy sneap / nordstrom production is that I genuinely love that sound... but only when I hear it on records made when that sound was cutting edge. Back then it felt new, exciting, boundary pushing, like the people making that music knew more about what rocked than everybody else and were leading the way to something great.

Now that same sound these days just represents a done to death paint-by-numbers kind of "spin the metal automation machine and just use whatever pops out the other end" kind of thing. It feels predictable. Oh look here's the "tough" breakdown part. Here's the 16th note programmed double kicks that last an entire verse so there's no dynamics, here's the guitar player with a high strapped headless 8 string with a weak right hand but he's got some nuclear blown out tone that makes his guitar sound like a bit crushed 8-bit nintendo game. Oh look right on time here's the cookie monster vocals, wow how powerful I love when the guy sang those immortal words "uurf urf urf urf urf ooooof" man that really moves me.

That's why it feels so incredibly exhausting to listen to that band that was posted

Because that sound was cutting edge 30 fucking years ago when "Clayman" and "Dead Heart in a Dead World" came out

And there's ways to make cookie monster vocals sound incredible (check out cryptopsy's "None So Vile" if you don't believe me; Lord Worm sounds like a serial killer alien on that record) as well as those 16th notes on the bass drum (check out "touch like an angel of death" by children of bodom)

But that's the thing, these bands are not doing ANYTHING to distinguish themselves as different, novel, in ANY way with the way their albums sound

 

[Shask]

I love the record (though i think WFIKTBD is a superior record, with a couple songs that are timeless classics like "raped by the light of christ") but it's objectively not a well-produced album

I love it anyways, because it's metal and it doesn't need to be super well produced to be effective in what they are trying to portray - there's a huge difference between that, and sounding shitty on purpose like bands try to do nowadays, especially death metal bands, as holy diver alluded to.

I think the music is so good on ATG first couple records it just kind of cancels it out, and gives it it's own vibe - kind of how @romanianreaper was saying, the fact that these bands had limited time, budget, and technology to get things done forced them to be creative with the tools they had available to them.

Alf Svensen is really, really underrated and he definitely gave ATG much more personality than they had in their more streamlined later records (though those are good too, in their way)



I worked as an engineer for many years, and I've been forced to listen to this quacky drop Z, overproduced "modern metal" sound so much I have PTSD.
Even worse is when a band comes in and doesn't realize that youre going to be replacing all the drums with samples, and DIing all their guitar tracks to use the same bullshit everyone else uses to get it to sound like that.

It was old and lame and gay then like 20 fucking years ago, at this point it's like watching someone do the foxtrot and trying to pretend it's new and hip and you're really into it because its so fresh

Some of my favorite albums sound horrible by today's standards. Something like Cannibal Corpse's Tomb of the Mutilated sounds pretty bad, but it has such a vibe to it that it is still historic and stands out. Memorable.

 

[Beyond Black]

It's definitely annoying when death metal bands try to sound like shit on purpose (as if "Breeding the Spawn" or "The Red in the Sky is Ours" sounds like shit on purpose)

That's obviously stupid and boring that they aren't trying to do their own thing - which sucks

But that's like comparing a local tragedy to a holocaust - the sheer number of bands who do the "quacky drop A modern metal guitar sound and steven slate drum sample replacement" production sound is like the number of atoms in the universe

That's totally cool if you haven't hit critical mass yet, but you will, eventually, get sick of it. It's just a matter of time, because there are literally endless bands that sound exactly like this.

Black metal bands can get away with sounding like shit, DM bands, not so much. Lol

 

[DanTravis62]

Black metal bands can get away with sounding like shit, DM bands, not so much. Lol

There's a method to the black metal madness

The "sounding like shit" is purposely used to create atmosphere, texture, and ambience, in a myriad of different ways.

Emperor, Ulver, and Mayhem use it on their early albums to create a huge, cathedral like vibe, like you're listening to the band play inside a castle or gothic cathedral.

Burzum and Darkthrone used analog tape compression to "smear" everything and create the sense of a dreamlike haze for the former, and the dirt and smoke of a pagan ritual for the latter.

Enslaved, Windir, and Immortal used the treble fidelity and ice-pickiness of early digital recording to create an icy, winter storm atmosphere with incredible depth of field

They may objectively "sound like shit" but they are all doing it on purpose to create atmosphere and vibe, and they do it better than 99.99999% of death metal bands - the only bands I can think of that used their production as a weapon like that (in various ways) are Morbid Angel, Carcass, and Obituary

Some of my favorite albums sound horrible by today's standards. Something like Cannibal Corpse's Tomb of the Mutilated sounds pretty bad, but it has such a vibe to it that it is still historic and stands out. Memorable.

Unfortunately, CC sounded a lot more interesting to me when they sounded like their own band

 

[Shask]

They may objectively "sound like shit" but they are all doing it on purpose to create atmosphere and vibe, and they do it better than 99.99999% of death metal bands - the only bands I can think of that used their production as a weapon like that (in various ways) are Morbid Angel, Carcass, and Obituary

Lol, earlier I was gonna say Morbid Angels Heretic album is one I cant stand because of the production when I like most of their other stuff. The guitar sounds like it was recorded with a DI out from the amp.

The newer Carcass Album Surgical Steel is one of the more modern albums that I think sounds great.

I was gonna mention those, but I figured those examples were too obscure, lol.

 

[DanTravis62]

Lol, earlier I was gonna say Morbid Angels Heretic album is one I cant stand because of the production when I like most of their other stuff. The guitar sounds like it was recorded with a DI out from the amp.

The newer Carcass Album Surgical Steel is one of the more modern albums that I think sounds great.

I was gonna mention those, but I figured those examples were too obscure, lol.

I was talking about their early stuff, I haven't even listened to anything past covenant lol - the big, cathedral reverb of the drums give the early MA shit a vibe unlike their peers

Save with carcass, I was talking about their early stuff - where the messiness of the recording gives off the "vibe" of the gross shit their lyrics are about

 

[Shask]

I was talking about their early stuff, I haven't even listened to anything past covenant lol - the big, cathedral reverb of the drums give the early MA shit a vibe unlike their peers

Save with carcass, I was talking about their early stuff - where the messiness of the recording gives off the "vibe" of the gross shit their lyrics are about

Yeah, both of those bands on their pre-1990ish stuff sounds a lot more lo-fi and back of a garage sounding.

 

[JimAnsell2]

There's a method to the black metal madness

The "sounding like shit" is purposely used to create atmosphere, texture, and ambience, in a myriad of different ways.

Emperor, Ulver, and Mayhem use it on their early albums to create a huge, cathedral like vibe, like you're listening to the band play inside a castle or gothic cathedral.

Burzum and Darkthrone used analog tape compression to "smear" everything and create the sense of a dreamlike haze for the former, and the dirt and smoke of a pagan ritual for the latter.

Enslaved, Windir, and Immortal used the treble fidelity and ice-pickiness of early digital recording to create an icy, winter storm atmosphere with incredible depth of field

They may objectively "sound like shit" but they are all doing it on purpose to create atmosphere and vibe, and they do it better than 99.99999% of death metal bands - the only bands I can think of that used their production as a weapon like that (in various ways) are Morbid Angel, Carcass, and Obituary



Unfortunately, CC sounded a lot more interesting to me when they sounded like their own band

and At the gates used their peavey bandit, buzz saw tone, dissonance, and dry ass production to sound like a bunch of young dudes raging with manic depression and deep internal pain. plus the way they used feedback at the end and sometimes start of most songs helped add to that.

 

[DanTravis62]

and At the gates used their peavey bandit, buzz saw tone, dissonance, and dry ass production to sound like a bunch of young dudes raging with manic depression and deep internal pain. plus the way they used feedback at the end and sometimes start of most songs helped add to that.

Especially with the early albums, the interspersed classical interludes, jarring feedback, and screaming

Reminded me of like a victorian sanitarium - beautiful scenery, architecture, and setting where some insane person spazzes out and murders people or something

That's why it works so well and stands out so much, though - now literally ALL death metal bands sound like that one band that was posted earlier and set this convo off

The BEST "modern" sounding death metal productions I can think of are like early Amon Amarth, late period Hypocrisy, and Unleashed "Midvinterblot" and shit like that where it's clear, and obviously professionally done, but the guitar has imperfections and HM2 fuzz and other personality, and the drums sound like they are played on a drum set instead of a Steven Slate or GGD application









To me, these bands are what "modern death metal" should sound like - professional, big, heavy, but "imperfect" and bludgeoning. Not crystal clear perfection.

 

[Metalhex]

I'm not trying to be offensive at all

It's not even that the band is bad or something

It's just this type of production is such burnt toast at this point that I can't even give the band a chance

This "satellite radio metal" production style was overdone in the late 2000s after everyone discovered andy sneap and how to emulate fredrik nordstroms micing techniques - at this point, two decades later, it's not just "overdone" its completely exhausting to listen to

To the point where I just completely tune out any "metal" that sounds like this

I get it....Just being turned off by the slightest hint of something that resembles typical modern style and production can be a turn off. I dont know if you ever listen to Liquid Metal on Sirius xm, but any modern bands all sound the same and have this big tough guy sounded drums and super sterile....everything. So the second I hear that "sound", I can't even give it a chance past that 1 second

 

[DanTravis62]

I get it....Just being turned off by the slightest hint of something that resembles typical modern style and production can be a turn off. I dont know if you ever listen to Liquid Metal on Sirius xm, but any modern bands all sound the same and have this big tough guy sounded drums and super sterile....everything. So the second I hear that "sound", I can't even give it a chance past that 1 second

When I was a machinist, that station and octane were the only "rock" music we were allowed to listen to for at for almost a decade

If I have to listen to another Jinjer, Bring Me the Horizon, Lorna Shore, etc etc (they are all the exact same) song again I will probably spontaneously combust

Every single one of those bands has the exact same drum and guitar sound. It's honestly uncanny. That's why everyone calls it "satellite radio metal" because it all sounds like the same band playing the same song over and over and over until your skull explodes.

Every last one of them uses the exact same drum samples, same active pickup/808/v30/57 guitar tone, the same double bass helicopter 16th notes with the snare on the three at 120bpm, the same "hardcore" vocals with "socially concious" lyrics, the same god forsaken breakdown, the same everything

You can hear Maiden, or Priest, or Iced Earth, or Metallica, or whatever band, and know who it is instantly - just from the vibe, guitar sound, production style, and vocals.

You could play me 10 satellite radio metal songs by Gojira, Jinjer, blah blah whoever and I couldn't tell you a single difference between them

 

[JimAnsell2]

To me, these bands are what "modern death metal" should sound like - professional, big, heavy, but "imperfect" and bludgeoning. Not crystal clear perfection.

I love the Peter Tägtgren production sound.

 

[Shask]

I get it....Just being turned off by the slightest hint of something that resembles typical modern style and production can be a turn off. I dont know if you ever listen to Liquid Metal on Sirius xm, but any modern bands all sound the same and have this big tough guy sounded drums and super sterile....everything. So the second I hear that "sound", I can't even give it a chance past that 1 second

That is why I got rid of Sirius XM years ago. I got sick of hearing the same thing over and over with Jose Mangan hyping every single one of them.

 

[Shask]

and At the gates used their peavey bandit, buzz saw tone, dissonance, and dry ass production to sound like a bunch of young dudes raging with manic depression and deep internal pain. plus the way they used feedback at the end and sometimes start of most songs helped add to that.

I was never much into Melodeath stuff, but Slaughter of the Soul, and Arch Enemy's Wages of Sin are a few standout examples.

 

[JimAnsell2]

I was never much into Melodeath stuff, but Slaughter of the Soul, and Arch Enemy's Wages of Sin are a few standout examples.

arch enemys first three albums are all classics imo. i kinda stopped liking them after Johan Liiva left. they still gig here and there as "black earth" with him as the singer, playing the songs from that era. I've met like 3 people out in the wild who seriously thought wages of sin was their first album
I read someone refer to Wages of Sin as Arch Enemy's "The Black Album (Metallica)", as it was a clear division of eras. I'd say thats pretty accurate.

 

[Shask]

arch enemys first three albums are all classics imo. i kinda stopped liking them after Johan Liiva left. they still gig here and there as "black earth" with him as the singer, playing the songs from that era. I've met like 3 people out in the wild who seriously thought wages of sin was their first album
I read someone refer to Wages of Sin as Arch Enemy's "The Black Album (Metallica)", as it was a clear division of eras. I'd say thats pretty accurate.

Like the Glamtera years, lol.