Metallica's 'Spit out the bone' guitar sound- all Wizard?

petejt

Active member
Spit out the Bone instantly became my favourite song from Metallica's Hardwired...to self-destruct album. The thrashiest of the lot and sounds huge. :rock:

I heard the rhythm guitar track on its own and trying to work out what amp/s it is:



To me that seems to have a Marshall vibe to it, like Kill 'em All/Ride the Lightning sound wise. I don't really hear any trace of Mesa/Boogie in it at all. The bottom end is very tight, but isn't as percussive like the Mark series or rumbly like the Recto. It's more woody. The upper midrange sounds edgy but not nasal like a Marshall can be known to be. The top end is crunchy and edgy but doesn't have that sizzle of a MarkIIC+ at all or the top-end fizz of a Recto- you can hear that particular fizzy sound on the 'Load-style songs like Am I Savage?, Dream no more, Now that we're dead, Here Comes Revenge and partly like Confusion ({i]Confusion[/i] seems to have both the crunch of the IIC+ and fizz of the Recto).

I'm not complaining about it- I absolutely love it! I love those huge full ringing chords from 2:40.

Do you reckon this is just the Wizard Modern Classic amp on its own?
Would it be a combo of the Wizard and James' MarkIIC+? The MarkIIC+ set as "Marshally" as possible for a different setting?
 

cnote

Member
I had several IIC+s, and I have had a Wizard from 2006 that Rick said was built like Het's. I had them at the same time, kept one of the IIC+'s (they do sound different). The Wizard was a Modern Classic version 1. IMO, no way that is the Wizard alone. I also got the Brown Source Pedal to use with the Wizard like James did. It gets closer to the Garage tone with that. But I really believe that the sound here is the Wizard and the IIC+, and possibly the Diezel as well. Wizards are not nasal - they are a Hiwatt/Marshall mix IMO. Gives it that midrange edge but with more clarity and less nasal than a Marshall. IIC+s are not nasal either. So not surprised you don't hear that here. The wild card is the EQ and gate and stuff they use in the IIC+ loop that can change the tone a ton vs what most think of as IIC+ tone.
 
D

Deleted member 22177

Guest
Rezamatix":3tms7yr0 said:
What people don't think about in examples like this is the mix pre, the mic(s), phase alignment plugins, the board itself, the eq from the board itself, outboard EQ and compression...there is like a million fucking things done to these tracks before you hear this example.


If you posted the RAW track, it would still have the mic and the EQ and the preamp, blah blah blah.

You want this tone? Get all that stuff.

Otherwise just enjoy playing 1 or two amps at a time and being a loud badass.
Exactly. They have every tool at their disposal. Who knows what amp they used and how they manipulated it? Bottom line, Jaymz can play like a motherfucker.
 

ProgFree

New member
petejt":l0ljr0w9 said:
Spit out the Bone instantly became my favourite song from Metallica's Hardwired...to self-destruct album. The thrashiest of the lot and sounds huge. :rock:

I heard the rhythm guitar track on its own and trying to work out what amp/s it is:



To me that seems to have a Marshall vibe to it, like Kill 'em All/Ride the Lightning sound wise. I don't really hear any trace of Mesa/Boogie in it at all. The bottom end is very tight, but isn't as percussive like the Mark series or rumbly like the Recto. It's more woody. The upper midrange sounds edgy but not nasal like a Marshall can be known to be. The top end is crunchy and edgy but doesn't have that sizzle of a MarkIIC+ at all or the top-end fizz of a Recto- you can hear that particular fizzy sound on the 'Load-style songs like Am I Savage?, Dream no more, Now that we're dead, Here Comes Revenge and partly like Confusion ({i]Confusion[/i] seems to have both the crunch of the IIC+ and fizz of the Recto[/i]).

I'm not complaining about it- I absolutely love it! I love those huge full ringing chords from 2:40.

Do you reckon this is just the Wizard Modern Classic amp on its own?
Would it be a combo of the Wizard and James' MarkIIC+? The MarkIIC+ set as "Marshally" as possible for a different setting?

Diezel VH4? It is the amp that shows up the most in the making of videos and pic reports. Sounds a lot like a VH4 with el34 to me.
 

petejt

Active member
peterc52":1t53x67y said:
Thye had 4 wizards in the studio. MC, MC2 and MTL.

Gosh. I never knew that. I thought James only has the Modern Classic which he used back in 1998 for Garage Inc. and bits of St. Anger.
 

petejt

Active member
Rezamatix":xxtvsgrz said:
What people don't think about in examples like this is the mix pre, the mic(s), phase alignment plugins, the board itself, the eq from the board itself, outboard EQ and compression...there is like a million fucking things done to these tracks before you hear this example.


If you posted the RAW track, it would still have the mic and the EQ and the preamp, blah blah blah.

You want this tone? Get all that stuff.

Otherwise just enjoy playing 1 or two amps at a time and being a loud badass.

I'm aware of all the variables. I know from my own recordings how I can change the guitar tone from putting the microphone in a different spot or where the amp is in the room- often with frustrating results. I'm just curious what amps were used and how they were blended etc. I'm not after copying the sound.
 

petejt

Active member
cnote":1hqdncu9 said:
I had several IIC+s, and I have had a Wizard from 2006 that Rick said was built like Het's. I had them at the same time, kept one of the IIC+'s (they do sound different). The Wizard was a Modern Classic version 1. IMO, no way that is the Wizard alone. I also got the Brown Source Pedal to use with the Wizard like James did. It gets closer to the Garage tone with that. But I really believe that the sound here is the Wizard and the IIC+, and possibly the Diezel as well. Wizards are not nasal - they are a Hiwatt/Marshall mix IMO. Gives it that midrange edge but with more clarity and less nasal than a Marshall. IIC+s are not nasal either. So not surprised you don't hear that here. The wild card is the EQ and gate and stuff they use in the IIC+ loop that can change the tone a ton vs what most think of as IIC+ tone.

Yeah true, the IIC+ can be manipulated a hell of a lot with another EQ in the loop plus its own graphic EQ. Still I don't really hear much 'typical' IIC+ in this song. I suspect I hear the IIC+ in the rhythm mix for Murder One though.

I use EL34s and 6L6s in my own MarkIV, so that amp sounds different again.


I have almost nought experience with Wizard amps, but am interested to hear how they sound and wondered if this song was dominantly the Wizard Modern Classic.


ProgFree":1hqdncu9 said:
Diezel VH4? It is the amp that shows up the most in the making of videos and pic reports. Sounds a lot like a VH4 with el34 to me.

I've seen the VH4 a lot too but have a hard time trying to work out what it sounds like amongst the other amps. I'm listening to Atlas, Rise! right now and thinking that it's possibly a lot of the VH4. I like it but it does make me miss the sharp crunchy sizzling MarkIIC+ sound of ...And Justice for All.
 

Tone Monster

Well-known member
Having owned all 3 amps I can say for certain there is Diezel mixed in that tone. It's there clear as day on the single notes in the main riff. Sounds like 50% wizard 40% Diezel and maybe 10% boogie for tightness and sizzle. All guesses of course lol.
 

Kapo_Polenton

Well-known member
Rezamatix":7yxub0at said:
What people don't think about in examples like this is the mix pre, the mic(s), phase alignment plugins, the board itself, the eq from the board itself, outboard EQ and compression...there is like a million fucking things done to these tracks before you hear this example.


If you posted the RAW track, it would still have the mic and the EQ and the preamp, blah blah blah.

You want this tone? Get all that stuff.

Otherwise just enjoy playing 1 or two amps at a time and being a loud badass.

For once we agree. This. Any amp can be made to sound similar if you dial in the gain. I am pretty sure they could take a Boogie and tighten it with EQ + EQ at the board and in final mix. Same with AFD.. we all blow our loads (well some of us) over that amp but if you hear it in the demo tapes vs. final production, it sounds average/good nasal crunch but not orgasmic by any means. I am aware that one was the Caswell the other the Levi but the difference isn't that different between both while the production vs demo difference and polish is HUGE.

So in short, as Reza said, don't chase studio tone.
 

NewWorldMan

Well-known member
^Not to mention that often overlooked "other guy" on AFD that used a Mesa.

You're likely not hearing one single amp at just about any given time on that album. It isn't like the old albums where you can point out a tone and know it was one specific amp. They've been blending multiple amps since the 90s.

I'm personally not fond of the tone on the album. It isn't bad, but it's far from ideal IMO.
 

Kapo_Polenton

Well-known member
NewWorldMan":194ypgij said:
^Not to mention that often overlooked "other guy" on AFD that used a Mesa.

You're likely not hearing one single amp at just about any given time on that album. It isn't like the old albums where you can point out a tone and know it was one specific amp. They've been blending multiple amps since the 90s.

I'm personally not fond of the tone on the album. It isn't bad, but it's far from ideal IMO.


Was Izzy using a Boogie on that one? He got amazing low gain crunch tones that just fill out that album so much. That guy was like the glue that kept it all together. I still think crunchy guitars sound so much bigger on rock records than 5 fizzy gained out preamp tubes. Of course you can't record most metal with crunch though but anyway...
 

rbasaria

Well-known member
Rezamatix":2b9t64yb said:
What people don't think about in examples like this is the mix pre, the mic(s), phase alignment plugins, the board itself, the eq from the board itself, outboard EQ and compression...there is like a million fucking things done to these tracks before you hear this example.


If you posted the RAW track, it would still have the mic and the EQ and the preamp, blah blah blah.

This. There are SOOOO many factors in the studio that its impossible to tell what amp was used based on the finished product.
 

cnote

Member
Kapo_Polenton":3bejs8sm said:
Was Izzy using a Boogie on that one? He got amazing low gain crunch tones that just fill out that album so much. That guy was like the glue that kept it all together. I still think crunchy guitars sound so much bigger on rock records than 5 fizzy gained out preamp tubes. Of course you can't record most metal with crunch though but anyway...

Mk III, but the IIC+s I had do that all day long. It's one of the first things I noticed when dialing up the rhythm side, even before I knew Izzy used something similar. Literally "This sounds more AFD than any Marshall I've had, wonder why?"
 

paulyc

Well-known member
Kapo_Polenton":1sherhij said:
NewWorldMan":1sherhij said:
^Not to mention that often overlooked "other guy" on AFD that used a Mesa.

You're likely not hearing one single amp at just about any given time on that album. It isn't like the old albums where you can point out a tone and know it was one specific amp. They've been blending multiple amps since the 90s.

I'm personally not fond of the tone on the album. It isn't bad, but it's far from ideal IMO.


Was Izzy using a Boogie on that one? He got amazing low gain crunch tones that just fill out that album so much. That guy was like the glue that kept it all together. I still think crunchy guitars sound so much bigger on rock records than 5 fizzy gained out preamp tubes. Of course you can't record most metal with crunch though but anyway...


^^^THIS^^^
 

mdc1mdc11

New member
probably a blend, but as others have said here you can clearly hear that Wizard punch in the face in quite a few songs, revenge, murder one, savage...just my view...I first started noticing the wizards and their sound back during that covers album Garage Album (It's electric).
 
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