My JCM 800 sounds like garbage. Any suggestions?

[River City Studios]

About 6 years ago, I bought a 1981 vertical input JCM 800 2204 on eBay. I didn't know much about JCM 800's at the time other than the vertical input models seemed to be preferred by most people. When I received the amp, the tone was disappointing to say the least. Flat sounding. No balls at all. The high end was virtually non-existent, which I'm told is usually the opposite of what most people hear from 800's. I checked the iron in the amp and it was period correct (Drake). I never played the amp and it just sat in my studio collecting dust. I chalked it up to bad luck (or my dumb ass making an uneducated buying decision).

A couple of years ago, I decided to send the amp to Voo Doo Amps to have Trace throw the "Jose" mod in it. My hope was that Voo Doo could work some magic and make the amp sound like a big hair 80's monster. . . . . . . . . . .

No dice. The amp came back sounding like the same piece of sh*t with more gain.

So, my question is, what should I do with the amp? I feel guilty about selling it to someone else. I sure wish the A-hole that sold it to me had been honest about the tone. Could I cut it open and sell the transformers? Are they worth anything, or are they the problem, I.E. did I just get an amp with "bad" iron? If so, maybe I could replace the Drake stuff with Mercury stuff and end up with a usable amp?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Regards,

--Dan S.

 

[Bob Savage]

There's got to be something wrong with the amp and I can't imagine it's something that cannot be fixed. Did you change out the power and preamp tubes to see if that solves the problem? Barring that, I'd have a qualified tech who knows the 800 inside and out take a looksee to determine what's up.

It stinks that you ended up with an amp with issues but you're doing the right thing by not just selling it like it is, unless you disclose of course.

 

[TrueTone500]

Send the amp to Rick Hamel at SIB Effects. Rick is one of the best techs out there, and he won't rip you off. Give him a call before you decide to start pulling the amp apart. The JCM 2204 is an iconic amplifier. It would be a shame to replace those wonderful Drake's with non-OEM iron. If RIck is swamped, call Brian at Super Sound Music. Both Rick and Brian are located in San Diego, CA.

 

[Badronald]

I played many 800's over the years that sucked. They were inconsistent.

To say it should sound great is fine, but many of them didn't.

 

[steve_k]

The amp came back sounding like the same piece of sh*t with more gain.

That is iconic!

Put it out of its misery and save yourself the trouble of trying to make a lemon sound acceptable to you. Buy a replacement for $900 if you are still looking for "that" JCM tone.

 

[TrueTone500]

You may want to take Steve K's advice... He's owned every amp know to man at least seven times!

 

[River City Studios]

Send the amp to Rick Hamel at SIB Effects. Rick is one of the best techs out there, and he won't rip you off. Give him a call before you decide to start pulling the amp apart. The JCM 2204 is an iconic amplifier. It would be a shame to replace those wonderful Drake's with non-OEM iron. If RIck is swamped, call Brian at Super Sound Music. Both Rick and Brian are located in San Diego, CA.

Thanks for the tech recommendation, bro. However, I thought I tried this route by sending it to Voo Doo. Before sending it, I explained what problems I had with it and asked them to go through it and replace/fix anything that was adversely effecting the tone. They changed the caps, if I remember correctly. Still sounds like crap. I guess a different tech could have better luck, but after dropping $600 at Voo Doo, I'm hesitant to pack it up and ship it again. Unfortunately, there aren't any good amp techs where I live (Fresno, CA). At least none that I know of. If I knew it would make the amp usable, I'd do it.

Thanks again.

 

[TrueTone500]

Send the amp to Rick Hamel at SIB Effects. Rick is one of the best techs out there, and he won't rip you off. Give him a call before you decide to start pulling the amp apart. The JCM 2204 is an iconic amplifier. It would be a shame to replace those wonderful Drake's with non-OEM iron. If RIck is swamped, call Brian at Super Sound Music. Both Rick and Brian are located in San Diego, CA.

Thanks for the tech recommendation, bro. However, I thought I tried this route by sending it to Voo Doo. Before sending it, I explained what problems I had with it and asked them to go through it and replace/fix anything that was adversely effecting the tone. They changed the caps, if I remember correctly. Still sounds like crap. I guess a different tech could have better luck, but after dropping $600 at Voo Doo, I'm hesitant to pack it up and ship it again. Unfortunately, there aren't any good amp techs where I live (Fresno, CA). At least none that I know of. If I knew it would make the amp usable, I'd do it.

Thanks again.

Don't want to get into anything nasty concerning Trace, but I can guarantee you that Rick will treat you right. If the transformers test good, there's no reason why you cannot get that amp rocking like you want it. I did a Bogner 'Blue Channel' mod to a dogged-out '73 Marshall I owned back in 2008... My only mistake was that I sold it.

Just out of curiosity, what exactly did Voodoo Amps do to the JCM? Did he give you a complete list of changes? Was the circuit stock before the mod?

 

[glpg80]

Sell the amp. Cut your losses. Find a replacement.

Even if you fixed the amplifier you would still hate the POS.

 

[Bob Savage]

I played many 800's over the years that sucked. They were inconsistent.

To say it should sound great is fine, but many of them didn't.

That's crazy... Don't really have experience with the 800 but if this is true, that's pathetic.

Any idea what was inconsistent about them? It seems to me that the design is there so it would have to be a component quality issue.

I've played amps of all kinds that "sucked" but figured in many cases it was a matter of tubes and/or bias issues. Heck, almost every amp on the floor at GC sounds like garbage.

 

[Nico]

Sell the amp. Cut your losses. Find a replacement.

Even if you fixed the amplifier you would still hate the POS.

YES!!!

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

I'm surprised Trace sent it back sounding like ass.. in most cases I thought his customer service and work is highly regarded. It is possible that when he received it, the circuit checked out so he worked the best he could with it before sending it back. Or maybe his mod just isn't to your taste. One thing though, was there still a lack of high end when you got the amp back? Somewhat unfortunate that it has been modded because i think it would be great to see some gut shots of this amp. Badronald is right though.. they seem inconsistent from amp to amp. I'm not sure why but I have heard similar things about plexis. Sometimes drift in components, value difference between who put it together on a particular day, or component failure might result in what you are experiencing. I have a 2204 build which is too buzzy , clipping OD pedal sounding to my liking... been trying to dial it out but sometimes the sum of all parts just bends you over and f-cks you. For fun let's play doctor and go for the basics:

- is there a bright cap?
- did someone remove the 470k resistor/ 470 pf cap off the input to the preamp volume pot and put a 68k there instead?
- if it is harsh and buzzy, lose that 100k NFR. A lot of 2203's and 2204's seem to run 100k NFR to 4 ohm tap for the gain but to me it's harsh. (go 47k to 8 ohm tap) Add that to no treble and what do you have? ASS (just like what you mentioned)

I had a stock JCM800 with 6550. Was bloody stiff. It is now my fave amp. Tried the same tweaks in my other build and they didn't work. You need to find some secret sauce that works.

Worse case scenario, discount it and sell it. Someone will buy it. I personally would love to tinker with it! Would be better unmodded though.

 

[Anonymous]

Send the amp to Rick Hamel at SIB Effects. Rick is one of the best techs out there, and he won't rip you off. Give him a call before you decide to start pulling the amp apart. The JCM 2204 is an iconic amplifier. It would be a shame to replace those wonderful Drake's with non-OEM iron. If RIck is swamped, call Brian at Super Sound Music. Both Rick and Brian are located in San Diego, CA.

Thanks for the tech recommendation, bro. However, I thought I tried this route by sending it to Voo Doo. Before sending it, I explained what problems I had with it and asked them to go through it and replace/fix anything that was adversely effecting the tone. They changed the caps, if I remember correctly. Still sounds like crap. I guess a different tech could have better luck, but after dropping $600 at Voo Doo, I'm hesitant to pack it up and ship it again. Unfortunately, there aren't any good amp techs where I live (Fresno, CA). At least none that I know of. If I knew it would make the amp usable, I'd do it.

Thanks again.

Why didn't you register your dissatisfaction with Trace and send the amp back to him and ask him to fix the issues you were hearing? After spending $600 for a mod, it should sound like you wanted it to... I'm sure he would have helped...

Steve

 

[pkyink]

If you live in California there are good techs around. You might have to do a little driving but it would be worth it. That way you could actually sit down with the guy along with your amp and explain what it is your wanting to change.

I'm in a similar situation with a modded amp and would be more than happy if I lived even 5 hours away from a decent mod guy. I'd make the drive without hesitation. But yeah it sucks having a bunch of money invested in something and having to make the decision to either settle for awfulness, spend more money with no guarantee of improvement, pawn it off on some unsuspecting person or sell it at an extreme loss.

Have you played other 800's that you like? Is there any way you could post a clip?

 

[NaturalBornBoy]

Why didn't you register your dissatisfaction with Trace and send the amp back to him and ask him to fix the issues you were hearing? After spending $600 for a mod, it should sound like you wanted it to... I'm sure he would have helped...

Steve

This. I've never heard of any bad customer experiences with Trace.

Call him and I'm pretty damn sure he'll work with you to resolve any issues.

 

[River City Studios]

I'm surprised Trace sent it back sounding like ass.. in most cases I thought his customer service and work is highly regarded. It is possible that when he received it, the circuit checked out so he worked the best he could with it before sending it back. Or maybe his mod just isn't to your taste. One thing though, was there still a lack of high end when you got the amp back? Somewhat unfortunate that it has been modded because i think it would be great to see some gut shots of this amp. Badronald is right though.. they seem inconsistent from amp to amp. I'm not sure why but I have heard similar things about plexis. Sometimes drift in components, value difference between who put it together on a particular day, or component failure might result in what you are experiencing. I have a 2204 build which is too buzzy , clipping OD pedal sounding to my liking... been trying to dial it out but sometimes the sum of all parts just bends you over and f-cks you. For fun let's play doctor and go for the basics:

- is there a bright cap?
- did someone remove the 470k resistor/ 470 pf cap off the input to the preamp volume pot and put a 68k there instead?
- if it is harsh and buzzy, lose that 100k NFR. A lot of 2203's and 2204's seem to run 100k NFR to 4 ohm tap for the gain but to me it's harsh. (go 47k to 8 ohm tap) Add that to no treble and what do you have? ASS (just like what you mentioned)

I had a stock JCM800 with 6550. Was bloody stiff. It is now my fave amp. Tried the same tweaks in my other build and they didn't work. You need to find some secret sauce that works.

Worse case scenario, discount it and sell it. Someone will buy it. I personally would love to tinker with it! Would be better unmodded though.

I have no idea if there is a bright cap or a 470k resister on the input to the preamp volume pot. I'll see if I can find out. It is not harsh or buzzy, though. The high end seems to get buried by the bass and mids. Even with the treble dimed and the bass and mids below 4.

When I sent it to Trace, I asked him to make the amp like a "stock" 2204 with his "Jose HG" mod. I told him I thought I bought a lemon and that the guy I got it from may have incompetently modded it. He didn't give me any "hey man, your amp is a hopeless piece of sh*t" advice before he modded it or after he sent it back to me. He did try to sell me new Mercury iron for it. When I asked him why, he said it was "hard to get that 80's tone without it". I then asked if there was something wrong the Drake stuff in my amp and he said, "no". I chalked it up to him trying to make a buck. When I got the amp back, however, it sounded like the same amp but with more gain. Still no highs. Not special at all. Since I asked him to make it like "stock" before he modded it, I would assume he did so. That's all I know man. It's pretty frustrating being a tone hound where I live. No amp techs or guitar techs worth mentioning and the only music store with any gear is GC, so everything has to be mail order.

Any way, thanks for the advice.

 

[River City Studios]

Send the amp to Rick Hamel at SIB Effects. Rick is one of the best techs out there, and he won't rip you off. Give him a call before you decide to start pulling the amp apart. The JCM 2204 is an iconic amplifier. It would be a shame to replace those wonderful Drake's with non-OEM iron. If RIck is swamped, call Brian at Super Sound Music. Both Rick and Brian are located in San Diego, CA.

Thanks for the tech recommendation, bro. However, I thought I tried this route by sending it to Voo Doo. Before sending it, I explained what problems I had with it and asked them to go through it and replace/fix anything that was adversely effecting the tone. They changed the caps, if I remember correctly. Still sounds like crap. I guess a different tech could have better luck, but after dropping $600 at Voo Doo, I'm hesitant to pack it up and ship it again. Unfortunately, there aren't any good amp techs where I live (Fresno, CA). At least none that I know of. If I knew it would make the amp usable, I'd do it.

Thanks again.

Why didn't you register your dissatisfaction with Trace and send the amp back to him and ask him to fix the issues you were hearing? After spending $600 for a mod, it should sound like you wanted it to... I'm sure he would have helped...

Steve

I did call him after I got it back. He said I could send it back to him and he would check it out. From Cali to New York, it's $100, each way, for shipping, which I would have to pay for. At that point, I decided to sit on it. Couldn't see throwing another $200 at it without a guarantee, especially since he had the chance to make it sound killer the first time.

Just to be clear, I didn't start this thread to bag on Trace. He seems like a nice guy and he never told be to go f*ck myself. I got the impression he would have seriously looked into the problem if I had the chance to look at my amp again. I guess I just didn't feel confident that he could rectify the problem. Maybe if I lived in New York, it may have made more sense to me. But from Cali, I felt it wasn't worth the risk again. I know his work is very reputable, which is why I sent it to him in the first place.

 

[TrueTone500]

If you're really want to keep the amp, I would (as I said) send it to Rick Hamel at SIB Effects in San Diego. If it's lacking highs, then there's an issue (previous mod?) in the circuit that's causing it. Have Rick put it back to stock, and go forward from there.

You may also want to look at this as a chance to familiarize yourself with the topology of the circuit. You could contact Brian Haberman and have him fabricate a drop-in turret-board for you. You will need to populate the board yourself, or have someone with experience do it for you. Converting it to a hand-wired board will make mods a breeze! It's a thought anyway...

I did a complete rebuild on a less than impressive sounding 1987S Marshall in 2011. It turned-out to be one of the best sounding amps I've ever owned. I sold it 2 years ago, and I still get emails from the buyer complementing me on the build. Brian even posted a pic of my build on his website and his Facebook page. I'd take a look at it for you, but I'm working on several local amps already. I don't normally use SM caps midway through the circuit, but on this amp it sounded fabulous!

 

[Anonymous]

wait


i hate to even say this, but let's back up

have you tried other cabs with it?

are your speakers in phase?

i'd have that fucker open, and posing for pics to put up here. someone will tell you within minutes wtf is going on with it, i'd bet.

 

[Heritage Softail]

Make clips of the amp. Good chord changing and riffage, then some single note stuff.

Capture the tone of the amp. Even though you may not like it, there are probably lots that will. I mean..

I hated Dimebag's tone, it was like putting a mic on an electric chainsaw with a barbed wire blade. But he was a great player and had great riffs. He made it work.

But there were plenty that loved it. So sell at fair market value and get what you want.