Analog reverb options....

[ChurchHill]

I call that the Coke Can effect .........sounds like it's coming out of a coke can ....

IMO ... there are some incredible sounding Digital units out there ..... but to use them you have to go full digital .... at least in your loop anyway ...

problems start happening when you're mixing digital pedals with analog going into the front end .... in my experience they just don't play well together ...

volume drops are my biggest gripe .... you can dial in a great tone but then if you switch something off ... or add something ... you get that weird volume thing going on

plus I'm old school I guess ..... I still think the best pedals were made in the late 70's early 80's

This, exactly! Much better worded than I did, too.

 

[griff10672]

I'm not sure this is going to help, but I think @BeZo has a point. I also think you're hearing the effects of aliasing, but, more to Bezo's point...

If you add a digital pedal to your current rig before any drives (boost, OD, distortion, fuzz, doesn't matter), it will probably work but all the reverb will be boosted by the drives that follow, which is not always ideal. If you put a digital pedal after the drives, it will likely distort the input of the digital pedal, which is what Bezo is describing as mixer clipping. Either way is not ideal. Most digital pedals, especially delays and reverbs, are designed to work best in a loop, which Twins don't have.

The 6G15 handles this better because its input is more like that of an amp. It's still not always ideal but mostly because it was designed before there were boosts, ODs, etc., but it's definitely better than a digital pedal that can't deal with too hot an input.

In any case, I do agree that for the tone you're going for, digital is not the answer. Hope the above at least makes a little sense.

I was just pricing the 6G15 out .....if you source your own parts .... it's not that bad at all on price ... especially if you can build and cover your own headshell ...

I'm considering building one just for poops and giggles ....

 

[VonBonfire]

I'm not sure this is going to help, but I think @BeZo has a point. I also think you're hearing the effects of aliasing, but, more to Bezo's point...

If you add a digital pedal to your current rig before any drives (boost, OD, distortion, fuzz, doesn't matter), it will probably work but all the reverb will be boosted by the drives that follow, which is not always ideal. If you put a digital pedal after the drives, it will likely distort the input of the digital pedal, which is what Bezo is describing as mixer clipping. Either way is not ideal. Most digital pedals, especially delays and reverbs, are designed to work best in a loop, which Twins don't have.

The 6G15 handles this better because its input is more like that of an amp. It's still not always ideal but mostly because it was designed before there were boosts, ODs, etc., but it's definitely better than a digital pedal that can't deal with too hot an input.

In any case, I do agree that for the tone you're going for, digital is not the answer. Hope the above at least makes a little sense.

It makes sense between what BeZo, you, and @griff10672 stated. Somehow I have never heard anyone state what you guys have said. I def don't have any plans on going digital now, lol, what a headache!

 

[griff10672]

It makes sense between what BeZo, you, and @griff10672 stated. Somehow I have never heard anyone state what you guys have said. I def don't have any plans on going digital now, lol, what a headache!

the digital stuff is pretty dam incredible ...... the problem is ... to me anyway .... you have to go " All in "

and I'll never leave the soft squish I get from my BBD Delays in the loop ...... I have yet to meet a digital pedal that replicates it

 

[VonBonfire]

I call that the Coke Can effect .........sounds like it's coming out of a coke can ....

That seems to explain what I'm hearing. Like it couldn't handle high harmonics or something and it turned into some weird shit that always repulsed me.

I was just pricing the 6G15 out .....if you source your own parts .... it's not that bad at all on price ... especially if you can build and cover your own headshell ...

If you decide to move forward on it give me a price...no rush. I been meaning to ask you about some other stuff but there is no point until I have $$$ to spend. I'm starting to think that maybe I should just sign the title on my house over to you.

 

[VonBonfire]

the digital stuff is pretty dam incredible ...... the problem is ... to me anyway .... you have to go " All in "

and I'll never leave the soft squish I get from my BBD Delays in the loop ...... I have yet to meet a digital pedal that replicates it

I would have to fire myself from my own group if I went full digital since I already warned the other guitarist about that.

 

[CDawg]

I appreciate you taking the time to write this but I'm not following it....I have other pedals in the chain already with an OD (gladio SC clone) in front of them. The other pedals, a Griffin pultec EQ, and Spaceman Meridian, are analog, and give no issues with the mixer style clipping you described. I throw a digital reverb or delay into the chain and my high end gets noticeably more harsh. I don't think it's clipping, I think they are artifacts. Not sure what the difference would be with a distortion or preamp pedal vs an OD? Aside that I see no point in completely changing how I run my rig just so a digital pedal won't sound like crap when I can just use analog gear that most of that digital stuff was meant to copy to begin with.

I think you have exceptional hearing and listening abilities to notice that.

There's distortions of what and there's distortions of when. During the conversion process the frequencies (bass/mid/treble) are no longer in the same alignment and you notice it in the dynamics/harmonics. Things just don't feel or sound correct. It usually effects specific regions. If it happens in the bass most people won't notice too much but if it happens in the mids or treble it can be horrific. You'll see it commonly referred to as forwardness or presentation.

 

[griff10672]

That seems to explain what I'm hearing. Like it couldn't handle high harmonics or something and it turned into some weird shit that always repulsed me.


If you decide to move forward on it give me a price...no rush. I been meaning to ask you about some other stuff but there is no point until I have $$$ to spend. I'm starting to think that maybe I should just sign the title on my house over to you.

Lone Star State here I come !!

 

[VonBonfire]

I think you have exceptional hearing and listening abilities to notice that.

There's distortions of what and there's distortions of when. During the conversion process the frequencies (bass/mid/treble) are no longer in the same alignment and you notice it in the dynamics/harmonics. Things just don't feel or sound correct. It usually effects specific regions. If it happens in the bass most people won't notice too much but if it happens in the mids or treble it can be horrific. You'll see it commonly referred to as forwardness or presentation.

If you go back and read some of my posts (don't bother, lol) you'll see I always mention it as harshness in the highs especially with volume and gain. Yes, like the upper harmonic series was getting screwed up or something, which made it sound harsh. The bass and mids were fine, so were clean tones generally, but the tell for me was always in the driven highs. I don't think my hearing is exceptional but I am used to certain behaviors from my amp since it's been over a decade I been using twins now so maybe it was sensitivity towards minute changes.

 

[skoora]

What about the OG Danelectro Spring King? Even has a pad for kicking it to get the crash sound.

 

[VonBonfire]

What about the OG Danelectro Spring King? Even has a pad for kicking it to get the crash sound.

They seem cool but they don't have a dwell control. IME that's a crucial part of getting a nice subtle reverb and what makes the Fender RI tank so much better than Fender's built in reverb in their blackface series.

 

[Geo]

 

[VonBonfire]

Those aren't priced too much higher on the used market than the Fender RI tank. Pretty nice looking unit.

 

[Geo]

Those aren't priced too much higher on the used market than the Fender RI tank. Pretty nice looking unit.

I bought one brand new about 5 years ago for $950. In five more years it will be $2500. Buy now before it goes up.

 

[VonBonfire]

I bought one brand new about 5 years ago for $950. In five more years it will be $2500. Buy now before it goes up.

Yeah I paid $350 for a Fender RI unit in '07 and sold it for around $5-600 in 2012, that was a mistake...they are running 7-800 bucks now. If I can come up with some dough I might just harass Waynzo into building me a brand new clone with a custom cover on the cabinet.

 

[BeZo]

I think you have exceptional hearing and listening abilities to notice that.

There's distortions of what and there's distortions of when. During the conversion process the frequencies (bass/mid/treble) are no longer in the same alignment and you notice it in the dynamics/harmonics. Things just don't feel or sound correct. It usually effects specific regions. If it happens in the bass most people won't notice too much but if it happens in the mids or treble it can be horrific. You'll see it commonly referred to as forwardness or presentation.

When it happens, it's pretty obvious. I used an Earthquaker Devices Transmisser a lot because it's a really unique reverb that can't be replicated with analog gear. It's a long, warbley reverb that can't be set to subtle that you use for soundscapes. With my bass rig, my outputs on my buffer and my compressor were too high, and it got snarley on the top end. I thought it was broken. Going through the gain staging fixed the issue.

As long as the gain staging is set right, you shouldn't have any issues mixing digital and analog. If you smack the digital too much, it can get unruly.

If you want the original reverb sound, use original reverb tools. Digital is just so much more versatile that analog doesn't even seem worth it to me anymore. I can't do the reverb tricks with the tanks in my amp. Not to mention, nobody is dragging around a fucking plate.

 

[VonBonfire]

Digital is just so much more versatile that analog doesn't even seem worth it to me anymore.

I'm definitely not into versatility, just tonal excellence, which is what analog gear excels at.

 

[Shask]

I appreciate your forthrightness but all you've done is make a case for me to use a real Fender style spring unit because as much as the Mercury 7 sounded like a dream with clean tones, it sounded like digital dogshit at 120dB with overdrive. I just can't get any of those digital boxes to give me the same smooth top end as their analog counterparts using my rig set like it would be at a live show.

You could try something that is "semi-digital" by trying a PT2399 / Belton Brick based reverb. Something like an EQD Ghost Echo. The PT2399 chip / Belton Brick is technically digital, but barely. The circuit is basically all analog except for just the time delay portion. They are lo-fi and dark on the highs. I think you tried something that is on the extreme end of completely digital. Something PT2399 / Belton Brick based might be a good compromise.

 

[311boogieman]

Just put the tanks back in if that's what you want the real deal. They are not that heavy. Otherwise I've been very happy with my Hardwire but alas it is also digital. I'm usually on Plate

Seven Lexicon Reverbs: Room, Plate, Reverse, Modulated, Gated, Hall, and Spring.