One thing Ive noticed about Seymour Duncan>Dimarzios.......

[VonBonfire]

Well he's retarded then because Gibson (famously) has had excellent QC and has come out with great new models and specs the last few years

My LP classic is like a 2021 or something and is well under 9 pounds, as are like half of the Les Pauls I pick up

Me and others have tried to tell him that and various other things (like hey maybe it's time to adjust some pickups) but like I said, he's good enough on guitar to the point think he knows everything. "Hey I'm a guitar instructor"....yup, he has a bunch of instructional videos.

 

[DanTravis62]

Me and others have tried to tell him that and various other things (like hey maybe it's time to adjust some pickups) but like I said, he's good enough on guitar to the point think he knows everything. "Hey I'm a guitar instructor"....yup, he has a bunch of instructional videos.

Wild

Gibson hasn't had bad QC and 10+ pound LPs for like a decade now

That's one of those situations though, where just like owning the gear doesn't mean you can use it effectively, just playing the guitar doesn't mean you know how tone works necessarily. They are all non-overlapping magisteria.

 

[Deleted member 101920]

I was a complete DiMarzio user for yearsssss.
For some reason decided one day to try a Seymour Custom-Custom in my Les Paul.
It was like night and day. Sounded like everything was turned up another 5 "clicks".. Absolutely LOVE the Custom Custom in my guitars now.
Lower the pole pieces two turns and raise the pickup. It's Godly sounding.

 

[Rottweiler]

I have been fortunate to not have to do a lot of pole piece rasing. But when you tilt the pickup a certain direction and play, you may hear certain notes with muted volume, or too much gain. You can lower the whole thing then raise a few of the pieces to give one a lower position for that one string. You can play a chord and notice one not not popping. I don't understand how you don't hear it and want to adjust

Definitely. I really learned this when I replaced P90s 20 years ago. You can only shim them to raise and there is a point where the pole pieces are the last step to get a nice even response across all strings.
Once I trained my ears, I can notice the string imbalance in my humbuckers also. Pickup and pole piece height can really make a big difference. I recently re did mine as it has been a few years and I'm mostly playing through my GPDI IR

Maybe it was the JD Gibson tech videos where I saw to match the pole pieces to the neck / bridge radius? Anyhow, I think some people make tiny height adjustments, don't notice enough of a difference, then write it off as though it doesn't matter.

 

[The~Kid]

Hot Rails or Cool Rails on a nice Tele is amazing tbh...... Just a fantastic paring IMO and IME *_*

 

[Speeddemon]

I was a complete DiMarzio user for yearsssss.
For some reason decided one day to try a Seymour Custom-Custom in my Les Paul.
It was like night and day. Sounded like everything was turned up another 5 "clicks".. Absolutely LOVE the Custom Custom in my guitars now.
Lower the pole pieces two turns and raise the pickup. It's Godly sounding.

Wow, that's almost opposite of my experience with the CC. I found it very, very squishy, middy and mild/too polite sounding.
FWIW,
I have the following Duncan pickups currently installed as bridge pickups, including the 3 'brothers' of the CC:
- SH-16 Custom/59 Hybrid in my Burny Randy Rhoads LPC from '83. (Oh btw @DanTravis62, that's a 12lbs guitar and it sounds awesome... But yeah, my left shoulder has a 'creak'... )
- SH-14 Custom 5 in my ESP Horizon NTII. (Had a JB in it stock)
- TB-4 JB in my Kramer SM-1
- TB-5 Custom in a no-name H-S arched top superstrat

Plenty of experience with a few others too: TB-6 Distortion in my Charvel So-Cal was fun; instant thrash machine.
But the CC ain't my thing.
I had a similar experience with the DiMarzio Breed Bridge model; too polite and bland. More low end than a CC though.
Breed Neck is a different beast FYI.

 

[Deleted member 101920]

Wow, that's almost opposite of my experience with the CC. I found it very, very squishy, middy and mild/too polite sounding.
FWIW,
I have the following Duncan pickups currently installed as bridge pickups, including the 3 'brothers' of the CC:
- SH-16 Custom/59 Hybrid in my Burny Randy Rhoads LPC from '83. (Oh btw @DanTravis62, that's a 12lbs guitar and it sounds awesome... But yeah, my left shoulder has a 'creak'... )
- SH-14 Custom 5 in my ESP Horizon NTII. (Had a JB in it stock)
- TB-4 JB in my Kramer SM-1
- TB-5 Custom in a no-name H-S arched top superstrat

Plenty of experience with a few others too: TB-6 Distortion in my Charvel So-Cal was fun; instant thrash machine.
But the CC ain't my thing.
I had a similar experience with the DiMarzio Breed Bridge model; too polite and bland. More low end than a CC though.
Breed Neck is a different beast FYI.

That's so weird the CC didn't do it for you..
It's a moderate output pickup but (for me) the picking response and the tight, but not too wooly bottom end make the guitar really easy to play.
Had a Duncan Distortion in a guitar once and it was just too "smeary" sounding for me.
JB's are great thou... They like any guitar you put one in.
Kramer SM-1... Good God I want one of those soo bad.

 

[Music&Chaos]

So i've done maintenance, setups, and repairs on peoples guitars for many years

And one of the benefits after installing pickups on hundreds of people's guitars, I've gotten to try a truly astronomical number of pickups that most people wont ever have the time to shoot out

I don't think it's a coincidence that i'm much more critical of pickups than I am on say, fretwork or something like that

But because of that, I've tried an enormous swath of pickups even from makers I dislike (BKP, dimarzio) even though I would never actually spend money on them myself

I had no idea when I started doing benchwork all of the various added benefits like that.

Example: I have found I absolutely hate all of the electronics they stock Epiphones with - every little component.

I keep trying to reuse them and whatever guitar they are in just has something I dislike about it til I get them out.

Had a tele I didnt realize I used some parts in (must've been tired) and just kept fighting with the sound.

Looked in there and found a couple Epi branded parts....womp womp. Easy swap and it sounds much richer and fuller.

 

[VonBonfire]

Example: I have found I absolutely hate all of the electronics they stock Epiphones with - every little component.

Seems to be the Achilles heel of every Epiphone I've owned. The IBG series seem to have sidestepped those issues but I've never laid hands on one to try for myself and tbh at $1300-1400 bucks I'd be looking at Edwards or a lower end Gibson. Couple of my friends have elitist Casinos and Rivieras, different story there but $.

 

[DanTravis62]

I had no idea when I started doing benchwork all of the various added benefits like that.

Example: I have found I absolutely hate all of the electronics they stock Epiphones with - every little component.

I keep trying to reuse them and whatever guitar they are in just has something I dislike about it til I get them out.

Had a tele I didnt realize I used some parts in (must've been tired) and just kept fighting with the sound.

Looked in there and found a couple Epi branded parts....womp womp. Easy swap and it sounds much richer and fuller.

Seems to be the Achilles heel of every Epiphone I've owned. The IBG series seem to have sidestepped those issues but I've never laid hands on one to try for myself and tbh at $1300-1400 bucks I'd be looking at Edwards or a lower end Gibson. Couple of my friends have elitist Casinos and Rivieras, different story there but $.

This is my experience with epiphone as well. The only ones that didn't have awful electronics were the expensive, high end ones, or the newer ones with fishmans

 

[Music&Chaos]

Seems to be the Achilles heel of every Epiphone I've owned. The IBG series seem to have sidestepped those issues but I've never laid hands on one to try for myself and tbh at $1300-1400 bucks I'd be looking at Edwards or a lower end Gibson. Couple of my friends have elitist Casinos and Rivieras, different story there but $.

Agreed - could never in my life put that out for an Epiphone. I think it is mostly that every church guitar kid I knew had the cherry burst Epi somehow and I was not into them ever.

I have played some newer ones that were cool but I couldn't deck much out for them.

I'd go with a used Gibson or something cool and Japanese every time.

 

[DanTravis62]

Agreed - could never in my life put that out for an Epiphone. I think it is mostly that every church guitar kid I knew had the cherry burst Epi somehow and I was not into them ever.

I have played some newer ones that were cool but I couldn't deck much out for them.

I'd go with a used Gibson or something cool and Japanese every time.

i feel the exact same way. I know people say the quality has improved a ton, but especially if were getting into the 'real money' zone, i'm grabbing an edwards or greco or something like that for everything under a grand. If we're talking over a grand I'm just going to shop around and find a well sorted gibson classic or studio or something.

The quality is so much better, so much more consistent, I'm not going to have to spend hours on the electronics, and either way I'll be fine

I definitely think the futura series finishes look great, but i'm just never going to spend money on something like that

 

[VonBonfire]

Agreed - could never in my life put that out for an Epiphone. I think it is mostly that every church guitar kid I knew had the cherry burst Epi somehow and I was not into them ever.

I have played some newer ones that were cool but I couldn't deck much out for them.

I'd go with a used Gibson or something cool and Japanese every time.

I did find the probucker 2 and 3's in my Sheraton II to be acceptable pickups really and the best Epiphone pickups I've tried. Very close to a 57 classic. Once you were in a live setting you couldn't tell the difference. The rest of the guts were bad news, the switch failed in short order, and the neck dive was horrendous. At the time I paid $450 for it like-new so tossing a bigsby on there to balance it out wasn't worth it and I'm not dangling weights off the strap to fix it. Even putting on lightweight klusons and ditching the grovers didn't correct it...

 

[DanTravis62]

I did find the probucker 2 and 3's in my Sheraton II to be acceptable pickups really and the best Epiphone pickups I've tried. Very close to a 57 classic. Once you were in a live setting you couldn't tell the difference. The rest of the guts were bad news, the switch failed in short order, and the neck dive was horrendous. At the time I paid $450 for it like-new so tossing a bigsby on there to balance it out wasn't worth it and I'm not dangling weights off the strap to fix it. Even putting on lightweight klusons and ditching the grovers didn't correct it...

Yeah with that recent video about the moisture content of imported guitar wood, I would be worried about its long-term viability too

But the economic equation is really simple - if you want to buy a cheap guitar, is it possible you get lucky and find a solid one? That is well balanced? Intonates? Frets are okay? Pickups sound good? Pots and electronics are decent? Hardware and tuners solid?

The problem is, you get halfway through the checklist and you're already at the price of a japanese guitar or a lower end american made gibson or heritage or something.

So it's really a luck of the draw thing. Sometimes you can find a well-sorted import for super cheap, hence all the people who champion them from the rooftops (especially on youtube, IG, etc)

But when you see as many of them I do, doing repairs and setups and maintenance, you start to notice the pattern - at a certain point you're just better off getting the more expensive guitar.

 

[VonBonfire]

Yeah with that recent video about the moisture content of imported guitar wood, I would be worried about its long-term viability too

That Sheraton II Pro was actually a mostly kick ass guitar, it's just those other factors made it not gig worthy for a working musician IMO so mostly means nothing. I actually had to raise the action cause it was so low (and buzz free) it wasn't suitable for a blues player. Never had that happen before. It was shred level low. It was a five piece neck...maple/walnut/maple/walnut/maple, super stable and I enjoyed the carve.

It was disappointing cause I would've dealt with the electronics but the neck dive is a deal breaker for me since I go hands free at times since I sing. The new Sheratons have a smaller headstock but not the five piece neck. They cheaped out. No more Epiphones for me especially with recent price hikes on guitars. Just like you said, Edwards, lower end Gibson, Greco, Tokai....something like that seems like a better choice and more guitar for the money if you're on a budget.

 

[MadAsAHatter]

Yeah with that recent video about the moisture content of imported guitar wood, I would be worried about its long-term viability too

But the economic equation is really simple - if you want to buy a cheap guitar, is it possible you get lucky and find a solid one? That is well balanced? Intonates? Frets are okay? Pickups sound good? Pots and electronics are decent? Hardware and tuners solid?

The problem is, you get halfway through the checklist and you're already at the price of a japanese guitar or a lower end american made gibson or heritage or something.

So it's really a luck of the draw thing. Sometimes you can find a well-sorted import for super cheap, hence all the people who champion them from the rooftops (especially on youtube, IG, etc)

But when you see as many of them I do, doing repairs and setups and maintenance, you start to notice the pattern - at a certain point you're just better off getting the more expensive guitar.

The other part no one really addresses is longevity. Say you get lucky and get a decent one. All the hardware is still made out of soft potmetal. If you're playing regularly, the bridge/tremolo, tuners, nut, in some cases frets are gonna wear out quick. That's either extra expense up front or down the line to upgrade/replace. One way or the other you'll eventually need to invest more money in that cheap guitar.

 

[DanTravis62]

Edwards, lower end Gibson, Greco, Tokai....something like that seems like a better choice and more guitar for the money if you're on a budget.

With my financial situation the last year, I had to offload almost all of my nice gear and guitars - there's a reason the one guitar that chose to get for a downsize is a fairly recent, low end gibson lp classic

The QC is relatively good at least since 2017 or so, you can find them for the same price as an epiphone + what you'd have to do to fix it, and not only that I didn't really have to replace anything except for the bridge pickup. And that's mostly a taste thing, not that the bb3 sounded bad; just bad for what I wanted to use it for.

I've used it for gigs, small tours, practices, and gigs every weekend, and it's barely gone out of tune let alone needed maintenance.

The other part no one really addresses is longevity. Say you get lucky and get a decent one. All the hardware is still made out of soft potmetal. If you're playing regularly, the bridge/tremolo, tuners, nut, in some cases frets are gonna wear out quick. That's either extra expense up front or down the line to upgrade/replace. One way or the other you'll eventually need to invest more money in that cheap guitar.

Yep, that's why it's very difficult to find a lot of the cheap guitars from decades past, and even harder to find them in good original condition. Because the hardware literally wasn't made to last that long. There were literally millions of cheap import guitars made in the 80s and 90s, and trying to find a specific model in working original condition even from the 2010s is more difficult now.

 

[The~Kid]

That Sheraton II Pro was actually a mostly kick ass guitar, it's just those other factors made it not gig worthy for a working musician IMO so mostly means nothing. I actually had to raise the action cause it was so low (and buzz free) it wasn't suitable for a blues player. Never had that happen before. It was shred level low. It was a five piece neck...maple/walnut/maple/walnut/maple, super stable and I enjoyed the carve.

It was disappointing cause I would've dealt with the electronics but the neck dive is a deal breaker for me since I go hands free at times since I sing. The new Sheratons have a smaller headstock but not the five piece neck. They cheaped out. No more Epiphones for me especially with recent price hikes on guitars. Just like you said, Edwards, lower end Gibson, Greco, Tokai....something like that seems like a better choice and more guitar for the money if you're on a budget.

Burneys are amazing too

 

[VonBonfire]

The other part no one really addresses is longevity. Say you get lucky and get a decent one. All the hardware is still made out of soft potmetal. If you're playing regularly, the bridge/tremolo, tuners, nut, in some cases frets are gonna wear out quick. That's either extra expense up front or down the line to upgrade/replace. One way or the other you'll eventually need to invest more money in that cheap guitar.

I bought the Sheraton sight unseen cause it seemingly had good semi hollow bones and I figured I could fix any small issues...until I got it in my hands and the neck dived like submarine. The bridge was actually a pretty decent locking TOM style, the nut was graph tech, the tuners were grovers. I actually haven't had good luck with the Gotoh TOMs on the Edwards. They both turned into rattle traps and I replaced the bridge on the E-SA with a tone pros.

With my financial situation the last year, I had to offload almost all of my nice gear and guitars - there's a reason the one guitar that chose to get for a downsize is a fairly recent, low end gibson lp classic

Sorry to hear that Dan. It's all about the music you make with what you have at the end of the day. Ain't nothing wrong with a nice Gibson LP classic. I'd love to have one. I wound up a similar position cause I really wanted a genuine ES335 $$$$. Sold my Edwards LP, the Viper 1000, both guitars I enjoyed quite a bit, and a bunch of pickups, some of which I would've rather kept, to help pay off the cc bill. Strangely I actually didn't take it on the chin to bad in the resale of the guitars for once.

 

[Music&Chaos]

Yeah with that recent video about the moisture content of imported guitar wood, I would be worried about its long-term viability too

But the economic equation is really simple - if you want to buy a cheap guitar, is it possible you get lucky and find a solid one? That is well balanced? Intonates? Frets are okay? Pickups sound good? Pots and electronics are decent? Hardware and tuners solid?

The problem is, you get halfway through the checklist and you're already at the price of a japanese guitar or a lower end american made gibson or heritage or something.

So it's really a luck of the draw thing. Sometimes you can find a well-sorted import for super cheap, hence all the people who champion them from the rooftops (especially on youtube, IG, etc)

But when you see as many of them I do, doing repairs and setups and maintenance, you start to notice the pattern - at a certain point you're just better off getting the more expensive guitar.

I tell you H'what (Hank voice)- swapping the neck on that Harley benton opened its voice up in ways that nothing else could. Absolutely sings now. Before, the pickups themselves are what sounded good (My custom A4 set from PT) - now the whole thing does. And my hand doesn't have that weird slight abrasive feeling when using the neck.