"The Death of Real Music"

[Dan Gleesak]

Okay, I don't think you're understanding the actual point of the post though. We aren't talking about a single band, the point of the OP, and the comments, is a pattern of this specific behavior. Every month there is a new "social media darling" guitar player who is exposed as faking his playing, using backing tracks live, stealing licks/songs, and general shittiness.

Do you play shows with younger guitar players? It should be pretty obvious that social media has changed the landscape. The "guitar community" (for what it's worth) has always been self-policing about these sorts of things, and all of the sudden it's the wild west.

I agree that there is plenty of social media bullshit out there. My first contribution to this thread was “I agree the social media stuff is a bit much”
I don’t however, agree that Tim Henson belongs in that category. More than likely it’s just another case of others lumping “young people” into a single category.

No decade or subculture of music has ever been without dumb shit, but if anything I give the “young people” credit for making a living in the music industry during a time that the music industry is pathetic and weak. Sure the posers are annoying, but have you ever heard Jimmy Page solo live? Yikes…

Plus who is to say Van Halen or whoever would spend years of their lives pounding pavement living in shitty vans if they had YouTube at their disposal? Live music venues are a dying breed and shows at house parties are almost non existent. How is some kid gonna “pay his dues” when gas costs more than their parent’s mortgage?

The young people didn’t ruin the industry, but they are smart enough to take advantage of it

 

[DanTravis62]

I agree that there is plenty of social media bullshit out there. My first contribution to this thread was “I agree the social media stuff is a bit much”
I don’t however, agree that Tim Henson belongs in that category. More than likely it’s just another case of others lumping “young people” into a single category.

No decade or subculture of music has ever been without dumb shit, but if anything I give the “young people” credit for making a living in the music industry during a time that the music industry is pathetic and weak. Sure the posers are annoying, but have you ever heard Jimmy Page solo live? Yikes…

Plus who is to say Van Halen or whoever would spend years of their lives pounding pavement living in shitty vans if they had YouTube at their disposal? Live music venues are a dying breed and shows at house parties are almost non existent. How is some kid gonna “pay his dues” when gas costs more than their parent’s mortgage?

The young people didn’t ruin the industry, but they are smart enough to take advantage of it

This isn't about litigating whether it's smart or not to take advantage of social media - and it's not about "young vs old" or whatever you're trying to move the goalposts to. That's why I keep asking you if you actually watched the entire OP, because you're dancing around the actual point that is being made, like you're doing a gymnastics routine. Or avoiding the actual point like Neo in the matrix avoiding bullets.

It's about using relatively common studio trickery to fake your playing, and using that fake playing as a representation of who you are, and what you do as a musician on social media - including but not limited to making money and getting sponsorships.

There have been a metric fuckton of younger "social media savvy" guitar players (who are taking advantage of it, as you say) who have been caught using these tools to egregiously falsely represent themselves. This has literally fuck all to do with using social media generally, except in how social media perhaps pushed them to fake their playing.

Lucas Mann, Manuel Gardner Fernandez, XKingofShredX, Giacomo Boopity-Boppity, etc etc

The main points raised in the video and comments are:

1. This used to be self-policing in the guitar community as a whole. You would eventually be "passed the ball" and have to improvise, or be put "on the spot" in a musical situation, and you would be exposed.
2. These studio tools were used in a vastly different way in the past, as I explained in my post about it.
3. This is a problem that seems worse for younger guitar players, as younger guitar players are more social media savvy and dependent on it for social interaction.
4. Even World Famous Guitar players like Tammy Hanson are bush league performers when they are "passed the ball" as was expressed in the earlier bullet points.

You jumped in hot at number 4, a tertiary point, without addressing any of the main, salient points of the post. If even tammy hamson sucks dick at improvisation and "being passed the ball," isn't that a worrying development? You think this is good for guitar as a whole?

It actually makes me feel bad for younger guys, as they aren't really developing those skills, which I feel like are essential for connecting to an audience

 

[Dan Gleesak]

This isn't about litigating whether it's smart or not to take advantage of social media - and it's not about "young vs old" or whatever you're trying to move the goalposts to. That's why I keep asking you if you actually watched the entire OP, because you're dancing around the actual point that is being made, like you're doing a gymnastics routine. Or avoiding the actual point like Neo in the matrix avoiding bullets.

It's about using relatively common studio trickery to fake your playing, and using that fake playing as a representation of who you are, and what you do as a musician on social media - including but not limited to making money and getting sponsorships.

There have been a metric fuckton of younger "social media savvy" guitar players (who are taking advantage of it, as you say) who have been caught using these tools to egregiously falsely represent themselves. This has literally fuck all to do with using social media generally, except in how social media perhaps pushed them to fake their playing.

Lucas Mann, Manuel Gardner Fernandez, XKingofShredX, Giacomo Boopity-Boppity, etc etc

The main points raised in the video and comments are:

1. This used to be self-policing in the guitar community as a whole. You would eventually be "passed the ball" and have to improvise, or be put "on the spot" in a musical situation, and you would be exposed.
2. These studio tools were used in a vastly different way in the past, as I explained in my post about it.
3. This is a problem that seems worse for younger guitar players, as younger guitar players are more social media savvy and dependent on it for social interaction.
4. Even World Famous Guitar players like Tammy Hanson are bush league performers when they are "passed the ball" as was expressed in the earlier bullet points.

You jumped in hot at number 4, a tertiary point, without addressing any of the main, salient points of the post. If even tammy hamson sucks dick at improvisation and "being passed the ball," isn't that a worrying development? You think this is good for guitar as a whole?

It actually makes me feel bad for younger guys, as they aren't really developing those skills, which I feel like are essential for connecting to an audience

I’ve stated more than once that I acknowledge there are “fakes” out there. I also stated that it’s bullshit. I just also happen to acknowledge that it is nothing new, and the only difference is the new batch of old people complaining about it.
Rock and roll history is full of bands that “can’t pull it off live”.
Me personally, believe that Hanson could play circles around many beloved rock and roll “heroes”, but also aware that no amount of talent is a match for nostalgia. Hence someone like yourself bitching that some 30 something year old didn’t rehash a bunch of 50 year old licks during a group jam.
We’ve all been there and done that.

 

[skoora]

Problem with all the tik tok and Insta guitarists is they never really need to play live / throw down in front of people before they get the endorsements and deals. All that matters to the companies are the views and exposure. Less seem to care about real human excellence anymore which is sad to me because it used to drive people to be their best and now it just drives up the use of software and editing. We're really quite pathetic...

...and don't get me started on those whores in the Gym's! Do better!

 

[DanTravis62]

I’ve stated more than once that I acknowledge there are “fakes” out there. I also stated that it’s bullshit. I just also happen to acknowledge that it is nothing new, and the only difference is the new batch of old people complaining about it.
Rock and roll history is full of bands that “can’t pull it off live”.
Me personally, believe that Hanson could play circles around many beloved rock and roll “heroes”, but also aware that no amount of talent is a match for nostalgia. Hence someone like yourself bitching that some 20 year old didn’t rehash a bunch of 50 year old licks during a group jam.
We’ve all been there and done that.

So fake guitar players of the past were getting tons of $, sponsorships, and free gear based on their fake playing in the past? Really?

Do you have any examples of this you could share with us? or is it just another nihil novi sub sole fallacy?

I would actually be interested, if you had a legit example.... But a band "not being able to pull it off live" being the same thing as literally faking your playing on social media? LOL uh, no

 

[DanTravis62]

Problem with all the tik tok and Insta guitarists is they never really need to play live / throw down in front of people before they get the endorsements and deals. All that matters to the companies are the views and exposure. Less seem to care about real human excellence anymore which is sad to me because it used to drive people to be their best and now it just drives up the use of software and editing. We're really quite pathetic...

...and don't get me started on those whores in the Gym's! Do better!

if you want to see something horrifying, check out the video of giacomo attempting to jam with dovydas, who is younger and a legit player

 

[rsm]

This is true in some things, but I disagree about it for guitar.

Have you seen G3? If Steve Vai, Yngwie, and Satriani can do it, i'm pretty sure anyone can

anyone can? cuz they're a bunch of amateurs?

 

[DanTravis62]

cuz they're a bunch of amateurs?

Vai, Yngwie, and Satriani are?

Who is? I wouldn't call Tammy Hanson an amateur either, he can obviously pop and slap and make all the beep boop noises

Is being able to improvise a decent sounding solo in any key on the spot without stepping on toes like a dark art now?

 

[tallcoolone]

So fake guitar players of the past were getting tons of $, sponsorships, and free gear based on their fake playing in the past? Really?

Well they are getting $ b/c people are watching them, not necessarily what they are doing. No one under 30 watches television anymore--these are the new 'celebrities'. People get $ and free stuff for putting makeup on or opening fucking packages. Until everyone stops clicking on these idiots they are unfortunately here to stay. Except that Giawhatever his name is--that dude's a douche and should be put deep into the penalty box.

 

[tallcoolone]

Vai, Yngwie, and Satriani are?

Who is? I wouldn't call Tammy Hanson an amateur either, he can obviously pop and slap and make all the beep boop noises

Is being able to improvise a decent sounding solo in any key on the spot without stepping on toes like a dark art now?

I hope not.

 

[rsm]

I hope not.

 

[VonBonfire]

Is being able to improvise a decent sounding solo in any key on the spot without stepping on toes like a dark art now?

I remember back in the day hitting blues jams. If you was new and showed any promise on your first outing a lot of the old head blues players would make you keep soloing 3-4-5 or more choruses hoping you'd eventually shit the bed. If they liked your playing sometimes they would do that anyways, lol.

I've done a couple gigs with guitar-aggressive guys who purposely pick something they think will trip you up and then throw you the first solo. I was doing a gig with friends and one of the guests was a former signed blues-rock guy, who proceeded to toss me to the wolves on a chicken picking tune. My heart sank when he nodded to me for the first solo. I somehow managed to hang on and even came out smelling like a rose and he put me on the back burner for all his numbers after that.

 

[Dan Gleesak]

So fake guitar players of the past were getting tons of $, sponsorships, and free gear based on their fake playing in the past? Really?

Do you have any examples of this you could share with us? or is it just another nihil novi sub sole fallacy?

I would actually be interested, if you had a legit example.... But a band "not being able to pull it off live" being the same thing as literally faking your playing on social media? LOL uh, no

I do believe it is the same. The slick “social media” tricks are no different than the studio magic used in the past. I bet you could name a few pretty famous live albums with dubbed over vocals and guitar parts. Is that not bullshit to you?
Or is it just cool cause it’s the music you grew up on?
A lot of bands suck live, but most people, myself included, don’t care because they put on a good show. They put on a good experience.
Fans of TikTok Joe don’t care that he might suck in real life, because his videos are a good experience to them.
Not everyone consumes music the same.

Again, I’m not denying there is an issue of “fake guitarists” out there, I’m just explaining why don’t give a shit. Everyone else is more than welcome to be bothered by something that in no way affects them though.

 

[Dino 939]

I’ve mentioned this before and have firsthand experience with it.

Soon, there will be NO bands.
Nope.
Too much work.
With all the digital /computerizedequipment nowadays, -that’s how many of the guitarists you mention, learn.
Not from going down by the lake and throwing hands, dusting each off and get back in the mix.

Why do you think all out favorite classic guitar solo’s involving two bad ass guitarist wrote the best shit?
They had to fight to make it happen.
Now there’s no need for the fight,
Because nobody is that great anymore in the sense of writing KILLER shit, guitar solo’s with the super killer rad spots and mistakes/bend completely out of pitch & bring it back on target that adds the supernatural flavor of the vibe-Gary Moore

No reason for any of that , the machines
will fix it for you and likely make it a better idea..

Wait until AI really gets integrated into music gear.
It already has but the Singularity is coming,
just like Jesus..so look busy!
LTFOL!
The rad clever dudes with all the gadgets were carrying that torch but even those heads have greatly thinned.

I listen to Spanish music.
I really do.
It’s annoying at times and hard to understand what they’re singing about but I’ve caught on.
I have a crew of Hispanic workers so this helps herds with comprehending what they are saying
AND NOT letting them know about it, like they do to us

My sons heavily into the drums and jams with his buddies.
He’s studying the original drummer in Korn
so that’s pretty rad.
So there’s still dude’s gettin’ after it raw dog style still!.

 

[DanTravis62]

Again, I’m not denying there is an issue of “fake guitarists” out there, I’m just explaining why don’t give a shit. Everyone else is more than welcome to be bothered by something that in no way affects them though.

So the reason I posted this in the first place is because I've noticed it with the younger guitar players that I gig with. Tons of them. Their social media presence makes it look like they are the second coming of Edward Von Shiddpant, and they can barely hang live.

So I know this is an issue that's becoming bigger with younger cats both through my anecdotal experience, as well as evidenced by all these social media fakers. I feel like that gives me pretty solid ground to stand on.

If you don't give a shit that everyone's faking their music, I mean...great? Why comment and waste everyone's time then?

 

[VonBonfire]

Soon, there will be NO bands.

I don't believe this. Certain people are geared towards live performance, towards being bandleaders. As long as there are venues paying enough to cover expenses there will be guys in bands.

 

[DanTravis62]

I don't believe this. Certain people are geared towards live performance, towards being bandleaders. As long as there are venues paying enough to cover expenses there will be guys in bands.

I think that's the angle he's coming from though, is pretty soon there won't be venues paying people, because venues will be playing AI robot bands or whatever.

I certainly HOPE he's wrong, but with how things are going who knows?

 

[tallcoolone]

If you don't give a shit that everyone's faking their music, I mean...great? Why comment and waste everyone's time then?

You have a much different perspective than most--you make your living through your instrument which I find incredibly admirable (and brave). I kinda get throwing your hands up and saying, 'whatever'. Nowadays I find myself doing that more and more.

 

[DanTravis62]

You have a much different perspective than most--you make your living through your instrument which I find incredibly admirable (and brave). I kinda get throwing your hands up and saying, 'whatever'. Nowadays I find myself doing that more and more.

You're right, I guess it's the feeling of being a canary in a coal mine

Squeaking over and over that "hey shits not right and this is going in the wrong direction, here's the evidence for why"

And the fellow coal miners are like "yeah who cares, we've survived cave ins and gas leaks before, 'nothing new under the sun.'"

 

[Dan Gleesak]

So the reason I posted this in the first place is because I've noticed it with the younger guitar players that I gig with. Tons of them. Their social media presence makes it look like they are the second coming of Edward Von Shiddpant, and they can barely hang live.

So I know this is an issue that's becoming bigger with younger cats both through my anecdotal experience, as well as evidenced by all these social media fakers. I feel like that gives me pretty solid ground to stand on.

If you don't give a shit that everyone's faking their music, I mean...great? Why comment and waste everyone's time then?

Well I originally commented, as said in my original comment, that I believe there is a swing towards more “organic singer/songwriter” type music gaining popularity in the charts. So, I do not believe “real music is dying”. If anything there is a resurgence.

I then commented on Tim Henson because I don’t think he belongs to be lumped in with the type of guitarists the video in the OP are referring to.

And I’m still saying that bands sounding like shit live is as old as bands playing live. Sure, social media is new, and some people use it more effectively than others, but if Rolling Stone isn’t going to write a puff piece about how great your band is, you might as well do it yourself.
If they suck that bad they won’t have anyone going to their shows twice. If the keep gaining fans, congratulations, you aren’t the target audience anymore