This amp still gives the Wizard Hellrazor - and the rest of the high-gain elite - a run for their money

[DanTravis62]

Absolutely. This took me a long time. Now I’ve started to prefer the recorded tones and dialling and buying gear with that in mind. To be honest buying a kemper was a great tool for learning about monitored tones.

Yep, a modeler is a great way to bridge that gap for people and make it easier for someone just starting out

I've just been blown away by how many people either are good at guitar, or know tone pretty well, but recording is like pulling teeth for them because they just haven't developed that ear for what's on the monitor yet

It's like an entirely separate skill

 

[thegame]

IDK never played a hellrazor.

I mean, I like an 800, its a classic for a reason - but here are three amps I like better for various situations and tones playing metal. The recording quality is pretty rough because I did it really quickly without any post... but same speaker, mic and guitar. I guess most of the time I prefer an 800 for a different style than that.

The VH4 sounds severely blanketed. Specifically Linus's blanket from Peanuts.

 

[DanTravis62]

The VH4 sounds severely blanketed. Specifically Linus's blanket from Peanuts.

It does, i should do it again with a brighter v30. It's just a darker amp naturally, with everything else equal

 

[S̷͖͑m̵͎͂á̵̺s̸͚̈́h̴̬̑]

IDK never played a hellrazor.

I mean, I like an 800, its a classic for a reason - but here are three amps I like better for various situations and tones playing metal. The recording quality is pretty rough because I did it really quickly without any post... but same speaker, mic and guitar. I guess most of the time I prefer an 800 for a different style than that.

I like the larry and vh4 the best. I think they are all tracking really well.

 

[SoooRad]

The best way I can describe an 800 is as a "square" tone, at least run in a conventional way with the master lower than the preamp volume. I don't hate squares, but I prefer a right angle triangle, the right angle being on the right side, which in my mind I attribute to the mids and highs, lows on the left. This is a shape I associate with a hot plexi tone. Not necessarily "hot rodded", just one driven hard. A bit on the brighter side than the 800.

An amp in the opposite direction would be something like a Laney AOR/Protube, a little more fuzzy/fluffy than the 800.

I may have a touch of the 'tism

I agree with the comment about 800s being a great rock and roll and punk amp. I don't love driving things with pedals, not out of snobbery, but rather out of "more pieces of gear that could fail". Plus with the master volume just flat out sucking, its not an enjoyable daily driver. Then there is the look. I prefer the look of the late 70s JMPs to the "800 and beyond" era.

Don't mind me, Mr. Bringdown over here. Haha

 

[Mike Oxhuge]

You could even split that hair further - ive met tons of people who can dial in an amp in the room great, but their ears completely stop working once they are listening on monitors in a studio.

I always prefer dialing in an amp while miced up, I usually end up with a better overall room tone as well as miced.

 

[Simon Dorn]

Have you ever tried to get these kind of tones from a 1987X or 1959?

Not directly, but i used a 1959 SLP MK2 Reissue with a Boss DS1 in the early days.

 

[Simon Dorn]

IDK never played a hellrazor.

I mean, I like an 800, its a classic for a reason - but here are three amps I like better for various situations and tones playing metal. The recording quality is pretty rough because I did it really quickly without any post... but same speaker, mic and guitar. I guess most of the time I prefer an 800 for a different style than that.

Nice. This reminded me of Metallica, which used, if google is correct, a Jose-modded JMP 2203 and a Rat as a clean boost on the first album. Is this the right order: "larry dino, a diezel VH4, and a block letter 5150"?

 

[Simon Dorn]

I've had 2 Wizards...a MTL 50, and an MC100. Both were great great amps. But, while I was enjoying the MC100 I nabbed an 83 2203...in a trade...and, shortly after scored a MINT 1972 Supertremolo for 2200 shipped. This was pre Covid. As much as I loved the MC100, I sold it since both the 2203 and the 72 kicked an equal amount of ass. And, the Wizard was worth 2500 at the time vs what I paid for the 800, which was maybe 1200....

You aren't giving up much with a healthy early 80s or late 70s 2203 vs a 100w Wizard. No wrong answer really.
All are killer.

I think you lose a lot, when you go from the boosted 2203s to the more polished modern high-gainers.
I once read this about modding (i include the modern high gains in that department
If you gain something, you lose something else.

 

[DanTravis62]

Nice. This reminded me of Metallica, which used, if google is correct, a Jose-modded JMP 2203 and a Rat as a clean boost on the first album. Is this the right order: "larry dino, a diezel VH4, and a block letter 5150"

Correctomundo por favor

IMO the diezel sounds like modern metallica, and the 5150 sounds like every metalcore band on planet earth

My point is there's a million flavors and we are spoiled for choice as far as gear goes right now, for metal

 

[mctallica1]

I've just been blown away by how many people either are good at guitar, or know tone pretty well, but recording is like pulling teeth for them because they just haven't developed that ear for what's on the monitor yet

It's like an entirely separate skill

I’m in this camp. I’ve never recorded outside of a real studio…no I don’t count the iPhone slop I post occasionally…and that was many years ago. I remember not being terribly enthused with the tones the engineer would coax me toward at the time I was playing, but liking what I heard in the mix.

I am quite adept at getting the tones I am looking for in the room and in a band situation…two different things for sure. It’s a good thing that the in the room tone that I am good at finding is what I do almost exclusively these days. Im all about having fun and de-stressing when I have time to jam.

 

[DanTravis62]

I’m in this camp. I’ve never recorded outside of a real studio…no I don’t count the iPhone slop I post occasionally…and that was years ago. I remember not being terribly enthused with the tones the engineer would coax me toward at the time I was playing, but liking what I heard in the mix.

I am quite adept at getting the tones I am looking for in the room and in a band situation…two different things for sure. It’s a good thing that the in the room tone that I am good at finding is what I do almost exclusively these days. Im all about having fun and de-stressing when I have time to jam.

That's good that you recognize it man, because if you're ever in that situation again you know to trust the engineer rather than your first impression

I'm not saying you're a terrible person or guitar player or something because you can't differentiate between the two I'm just saying they are different skills that people tend to blend together as if they are the same thing, when they 100% are NOT

 

[mctallica1]

There is so much nuance involved, depending on the application, that I get why some people don’t make the effort to learn the differences.

Not the same, but there are a couple teens in my neighborhood who are very interested in guitar and I have been helping/mentoring them a bit. I often compare playing guitar to chess. Just because you know how the pieces move, doesn’t make you good at it….you have to spend time learning the nuances. But I digress

 

[Simon Dorn]

I am quite adept at getting the tones I am looking for in the room and in a band situation

You just have to find the right spot for a SM57 on your Speaker with that tone then.

 

[Simon Dorn]

Correctomundo por favor

IMO the diezel sounds like modern metallica, and the 5150 sounds like every metalcore band on planet earth

My point is there's a million flavors and we are spoiled for choice as far as gear goes right now, for metal

daa dadadam dadadam dadadaadadaadaa daaa (repeat)
earwig

 

[Simon Dorn]

My point is there's a million flavors and we are spoiled for choice as far as gear goes right now, for metal

That was my point too. Just different. Not better.
"This amp still gives the Wizard Hellrazor - and the rest of the high-gain elite - a run for their money".

 

[DanTravis62]

That was my point too. Just different. Not better.
"This amp still gives the Wizard Hellrazor - and the rest of the high-gain elite - a run for their money".

Ehhh, that would have been a much better point if you had a hell razor you were recording at the same time

 

[DanTravis62]

daa dadadam dadadam dadadaadadaadaa daaa (repeat)
earwig

It better be, mikael akerfelt wrote it

 

[Simon Dorn]

Ehhh, that would have been a much better point if you had a hell razor you were recording at the same time

Ah, i tried and had so many Amps, and compared many to the 2203. I asked for Clips. Didn't get any except yours. Haven't heard a Clip of the Wizards that i like, maybe except the ones from Brandon.

 

[Simon Dorn]

It better be, mikael akerfelt wrote it

I don't like their sound on this recording