Van Hagar haters

[jabps]

Funny you should mention covers, because I would say Diver Down is the exactly kind of thing I'm talking about with filler. Other than maybe 3 songs that whole album feels very phoned in. Covers, song fragments, weaker tracks. Funnily enough, there is a lot of the "soft" stuff that people fuss about with Hagar on that one.

Yet the song "Secrets" is arguably one of the most underrated VH songs ever. Why they didn't release that as a single is head scratching.

Disagree on the original tunes, I hear no filler there. In my opinion there's not a bad original tune on that album but that's why I said no covers, I knew you'd point to that album. Granted I won't argue the covers.

Hang Em High rocks. Little Guitars is unique as he's using a 3/4 scale guitar, great tune. Secrets didn't sound like anything Van Halen had done before. Somebody at the label dropped the ball there not pushing that as a single. The Full Bug is just a straight classic boogie and you get two cool instrumentals. In fairness it's my least favorite Roth album but only because of the covers.

 

[jabps]

I actually like Van Hagar a lot, but it's defeinitely not as distinctive as the Roth albums

The edges are smoothed out, but the playing and production went up a notch.



But it does sound neutered as fuck compared to, say,

Playing wise I have to disagree, Ed never played with the same fire in Van Hagar as he did with Roth. More controlled for sure.

As you said the music and the production was certainly "smoothed" out. Production wise though, I wouldn't say better, again different for sure. I think on the whole 1984 is their best from a production standpoint. Van Hagar was just more top 40, more homogenized but I get it, that's what they were shooting for and it's exactly what they accomplished with Hagar.

I remember hearing Me Wise for the first time and I thought, there you are Ed. That whole ride out solo he's just blazing.

 

[JonPearson1994]

Yet the song "Secrets" is arguably one of the most underrated VH songs ever. Why they didn't release that as a single is head scratching.

Disagree on the original tunes, I hear no filler there. In my opinion there's not a bad original tune on that album but that's why I said no covers, I knew you'd point to that album. Granted I won't argue the covers.

Hang Em High rocks. Little Guitars is unique as he's using a 3/4 scale guitar, great tune. Secrets didn't sound like anything Van Halen had done before. Somebody at the label dropped the ball there not pushing that as a single. The Full Bug is just a straight classic boogie and you get two cool instrumentals. In fairness it's my least favorite Roth album but only because of the covers.

There are 12 tracks on that album. By my account, there are 3 (4 if you are generous) original tunes that are really solid (by Van Halen standards). That's not exactly a great ratio, is all I'm saying. If we divert to another album for a second, let's look at Women and Children First. I'd say that one has about half of the album that is killer, half the album that is "fine". Again, by the scale of Van Halen as a band over it's history.

I'll grant VHI, VHII, 1984, all pretty much killer. Fair Warning is closer, but still has some weaker stuff. My original point, from my perspective of course although I ought not even give that disclaimer, was that the Van Hagar albums were pretty consistent throughout. That era will always have some disadvantage in that it has to be compared to the stuff that came before, but taken by itself it is pretty great throughout.

I have a similar argument about Dio Sabbath and original Sabbath, but we won't get into it here

 

[jabps]

There are 12 tracks on that album. By my account, there are 3 (4 if you are generous) original tunes that are really solid (by Van Halen standards). That's not exactly a great ratio, is all I'm saying. If we divert to another album for a second, let's look at Women and Children First. I'd say that one has about half of the album that is killer, half the album that is "fine". Again, by the scale of Van Halen as a band over it's history.

I'll grant VHI, VHII, 1984, all pretty much killer. Fair Warning is closer, but still has some weaker stuff. My original point, from my perspective of course although I ought not even give that disclaimer, was that the Van Hagar albums were pretty consistent throughout. That era will always have some disadvantage in that it has to be compared to the stuff that came before, but taken by itself it is pretty great throughout.

I have a similar argument about Dio Sabbath and original Sabbath, but we won't get into it here

Understood. Granted what's considered filler is subjective as well.

I'm pretty open about my disdain for Balance. That album, even it's tone which many laud I don't get it. The songs sounded like a band out of idea's not to mention, they're just boring to me. I mean VHIII i really dislike but it doesn't bore me like Balance. Whereas say the FU album, I love that album.

Again, no argument from me on Diver Downs covers however I do understand why they had to do it. They weren't supposed to be making an album but the label ordered them to do so.

As for consistency, again all subjective i.e. just my opinion but Balance and OU812 are washouts barring two songs. So that basically leaves them two complete albums out of four with Hagar that delivered so that ratio ain't looking so good either lol.

 

[JonPearson1994]

Understood. Granted what's considered filler is subjective as well.

I'm pretty open about my disdain for Balance. That album, even it's tone which many laud I don't get it. The songs sounded like a band out of idea's not to mention, they're just boring to me. I mean VHIII i really dislike but it doesn't bore me like Balance. Whereas say the FU album, I love that album.

Again, no argument from me on Diver Downs covers however I do understand why they had to do it. They weren't supposed to be making an album but the label ordered them to do so.

As for consistency, again all subjective i.e. just my opinion but Balance and OU812 are washouts barring two songs. So that basically leaves them two complete albums out of four with Hagar that delivered so that ratio ain't looking so good either lol.

Viva la difference eh?

The upside to all this Van Halen talk is I'm going back through everything now and the jams are strong, regardless of the era

 

[jabps]

Viva la difference eh?

The upside to all this Van Halen talk is I'm going back through everything now and the jams are strong, regardless of the era

Same, been on a massive VH kick for several weeks now.

 

[Eazy-ESP]

Van Hagar definitely had better songs. They weren't as gonzo or straight up rocking though. A lot of the Roth era was not quite filler, but there were the great songs and then there were the other songs

Have you heard the Hagar “other” songs. Completely unlistenable. I like a few Hagar era songs. But on a whole, Roth era had WAY higher quality songs in general.

 

[thegame]

I have a similar argument about Dio Sabbath and original Sabbath, but we won't get into it here

And the better Sabbath was? Be very careful how you answer this