Yet another Axe-fx Thread .....

[Drkorey]

+1 for a request to get a MK IV patch made

 

[mctallica1]

I love how this unit gets naysayed by those who either haven't tried it or have only heard clips.

With a few notable exceptions (donbarzini being one), pretty much everyone who actually spends some time with one of these bad boys, with some objectivity, comes away not only liking the unit, but with their head awhirl with new possibilities and ideas.


I have been spending quality time with one for quite a while now and still stumble onto EUREKA moments on a regular basis.

PLUS....and this is the clincher for me because I don't care how many whosits or whatnots something has built into it if this isn't there....it feels like an amp If that wasn't part of the equation, I would have grown bored with it a long time ago.

At this point, I really couldn't see myself not having one of these units as part of my gear.

 

[defpearlpilot]

Isn't this the case with most modelers? The problem is never really the preamp, it's the power amp. Once they figure out how to model real power tube saturation, then it will be over for tube amps.

 

[mctallica1]

Isn't this the case with most modelers? The problem is never really the preamp, it's the power amp. Once they figure out how to model real power tube saturation, then it will be over for tube amps.

I think it is part of the issue, but certainly not all. I have used POD's into VHT power amps and there was still a lot of work arounds needed and they never felt right to me. Sounded just fine, but the feel wasn't there.

The Axe Fx sounds right and feels right through tube or SS power amps.

FWIW< I seem to be gravitating more and more to using it with my Carvin DCM600 SS power amp instead of tube power amps, but the other options sound and feel good too. I even like it through powered monitors.

 

[Gainfreak]

That's awesome Ralph and Kage. I'm still shocked on a daily basis when playing with my Ultra. Can't wait to hear the patches you guys come up with. I need a good Mark IV patch!

I got back home from the girlfriends house around 7pm and I was able to get my MKIV gained out patch by 7:30-8pm. What Im finding on this thing is that if you already know what makes your tone tick, you can dial it up easier then normal in this thing. To say that Im eating my words is an undestatement! If you want to mess around with some gained out stuff go to the recto 2 patch and add a treble booster in front of the amp with the level goosed a bit. Keep in mind that I have the cab sims off and Im playing it through my mesa 2:90 poweramp but I a/b'ed that patch with a few of my EQ tweaks against the real MKIV and I literally pissed myself
It's pretty safe to say that I know what my Coverband gig rig is going to be.

 

[ratter]

Isn't this the case with most modelers? The problem is never really the preamp, it's the power amp. Once they figure out how to model real power tube saturation, then it will be over for tube amps.

I get what you're saying Andrew, but also on some level I disagree. Ralph doesn't like the direct tones, but others do (including me...) Also, I think that most people running full tube rigs rarely come close to really pushing the power section. The guys who do are often using attenuators, which are also a tone compromise. And a whole lot of master-volume amps (most?) sound like ass if the power section is cranked.

 

[Gainfreak]

Thanks for the review......I really need to try one of these.

Yes you do. Don't buy into the hype or the negative side. Id recommend that you try one for yourself and make a decision based on what you hear/feel.

 

[Gainfreak]

I had a feeling your opinion would be swayed once you got to play with it!

And you would be 100% correct. This thing is seriously good and it covers a lot of ground. I don't like the direct sounds so I totally misjudged what this thing is capable. I always wondered what it would sounds like through a poweramp and it did not dissapoint. Add that plus the fact that its relatively easy to use and you can control your effects easier then any unit ive used and its a no brainer. I will definitely be using it in the near future

Cliff has something special here and there is almost a 100% turnover rate from guys who have had doubts about this thing only to be totally convinced after they get one. Im proof of that and I think Ed is to.

I sure am.

 

[Gainfreak]

Good review Ralph! Let us know when you get the MkIV patch dialed in...

almost there

 

[Gainfreak]

Neener, neener, neener bro! I told ya...
Going thru the Mesa 2:90 and the JMP power amp, it is
simply amazing the sounds you can get out of this unit!

Gary you handsome SOB!! How the hell are you! yup, Im eating a bit of crow on this one but I figured that I would be. it wasn't much of a shock lol!

 

[Gainfreak]

As some of you may or may not know, Cliff from Fractal audio had offered to send Kage and I an Axe-fx unit to try out in person after he read a thread that I had posted on Rig-talk, so I took off of work on Friday and I met up with Kage in NYC and then we both walked to Harry Kolbe’s studio where we met up with Tom from Fractal audio.
First off before I even get into a mini review of the unit I have got to say that Tom is one of the nicest guys to deal with and he is also a great player! I think that cliff should be extremely happy that he has a guy like Tom working for him because Tom is one of the coolest guys on the planet and he is very down to earth. I can also add that Cliff is an amazing person in his own rite for even considering doing this and he is also a great guy to deal with as well.
Now for a mini review and I will keep this brief because I will post a full review after I have had more time with the unit. I won’t have time to play around with this thing until Monday because I have been doing the Girlfriend duties this weekend lol!
Ok back on track!! Within minutes of meeting Tom both Kage and I were greeted with a warm welcome. We chatted for a bit and then went into a room where the axe-fx was setup through a tube power-amp and a 4x12 cab loaded with v-30’s. Within minutes of hearing this thing it had already smoked what I heard at the NY amp show. I had always suspected that this thing would sound killer through a power amp and I was MORE then surprised by the end result. Tom took us through the basics of the unit and what I immediately loved is that you don’t have to be a rocket scientist to program the thing!. It’s pretty cut and dry and I found that I was dialing in useable tones within minutes of screwing around with the unit. Of course it did help that I had Tom show me what’s up before I started messing around but I can’t see anyone not being able to get some sounds out of this thing after screwing around with it a bit. Kage used to have a POD pro and I spent hours screwing around with that thing and ended up with a so so tone that sounded like crap when played through a power amp. The axe-fx already smoked any of the LIVE tones that I got out of the POD and I was able to do it in minutes not hours. The POD also cannot compete with the effects that are in this unit. In all honest, the PODs effects are a joke and that’s coming from the heart. Now here is the deal, I have never been a fan of direct recording or going direct into a PA (tried it many times…don’t dig it) and I can honestly tell you that plugging this sucker into a tube power amp KILLS. It is the way that I would use it and I am now 100% positive that when using the Axe-fx in this manor, I could burn anyone into thinking that I was using an amp. The other thing that I noticed is that it felt like I was playing an amp and not a modeler. I know people have said this before but I experienced it first hand. I’m pretty sure that if they had the unit setup like this at the NY amp show that Both Dave and I would have shit our pants lol.
Now on to the down and Dirty, Is everyone going to like this thing? Well no, but it really depends on what you are trying to do. If you just wanted this thing for a direct recording solution then I think that some people might be put off because there are so many solutions for that but if you are a gigging guitar player or you are looking for killer compact rig then I can’t see anything touching this sucker…….. period. I can say this now that I’ve actually had a chance to set it up the way I like.
Some of you might not know this but I have joined another band and I was putting together my rig of doom and I have been running into nothing but problems (ground loops and a whole bunch of other shit) I can tell you that with a midi pedal, axe-fx , a tube power amp and speaker cab, I could do a gig TOMMOROW. This thing also can save touring guitarist a ton of hassles of not having to rent a back line when doing traveling gigs! All you would need is a speaker cab or you could go direct (not my first choice as I have already pointed out lol) and you could take a 4 space rack and midi board on the plane with you.
Cliff, I apologize if my initial comments were taken as being negative but I have got to tell you that what I heard at the show and what I heard a few days ago were night and day! You have done a fantastic job with this thing and I’m pretty sure that I will be selling off some stuff to get one because I’m tired if dicking around with my GCX, amps witching midi rack.
More to come and I’m sure that you guys are sick and tired of hearing about this thing but it is all that and a bag of chips if you have a clear idea of what you want to achieve with it! The unit allows you to literally be an amp builder and design your own tone. I had a MKIV like tone within minutes of using the thing. Cliff, I also have to tell you that you need more gain on the MKIV settings lol I had to add a boost to it in order to get the gain levels up to my MKIV To quote my buddy Ed Deganaro... this thing slapped my dick into the Dirt and I haven't even gotten started yet!!

More to come !! Kage please feel free to chime in!!

Ralph

And also with you....

We lift up our hearts lol

BTW, i can see why you passed on the AF based on what you want to do but Id say if you were going to go out to play covers then this would suite your needs perfectly!

 

[Gainfreak]

I love how this unit gets naysayed by those who either haven't tried it or have only heard clips.

With a few notable exceptions (donbarzini being one), pretty much everyone who actually spends some time with one of these bad boys, with some objectivity, comes away not only liking the unit, but with their head awhirl with new possibilities and ideas.


I have been spending quality time with one for quite a while now and still stumble onto EUREKA moments on a regular basis.

PLUS....and this is the clincher for me because I don't care how many whosits or whatnots something has built into it if this isn't there....it feels like an amp If that wasn't part of the equation, I would have grown bored with it a long time ago.

At this point, I really couldn't see myself not having one of these units as part of my gear.

I agree with you. The problem I was having is that I don't like direct tones and when I heard it through the QSC monitors at teh amp show, it was still using the cab sims and going direct, which is why I didn't dig it so much. Playing this through a poweramp and through speakers is a whole new level of cool. I haven't even scratched the surface yet but I could gig tomorrow with this thing and be comfortable. That says a lot and it really does feel like an amp.

 

[Gainfreak]

Isn't this the case with most modelers? The problem is never really the preamp, it's the power amp. Once they figure out how to model real power tube saturation, then it will be over for tube amps.

I will say this that the AXE-fx has a sag control built into it and I can hear some uncanny artifacts that it has that mimics an o/p tranformer working hard. i know that sounds insane but its in there lol Well its either in there or Im haring things lol Cliff can tell you for sure though!

 

[thiswaythatway]

That's cool that you're having a good time with it Ralph. Thing is, cool gear comes out every year and I'd be a broke SOB if i dropped dough on everything that came out.

There have been plenty of killer preamps that have come out over the years but i guess they just didn't have all the effects built in or didn't really come close to tube tones. The Triaxis comes to mind since i never liked that unit.

The Axe-fx sounds cool but after you get a good power amp, that's a pretty big price tag.

 

[Gainfreak]

Isn't this the case with most modelers? The problem is never really the preamp, it's the power amp. Once they figure out how to model real power tube saturation, then it will be over for tube amps.

I get what you're saying Andrew, but also on some level I disagree. Ralph doesn't like the direct tones, but others do (including me...) Also, I think that most people running full tube rigs rarely come close to really pushing the power section. The guys who do are often using attenuators, which are also a tone compromise. And a whole lot of master-volume amps (most?) sound like ass if the power section is cranked.

I agree and that's why this thing is so marketable (there is a little bit of everything for any player)but you need to have a clear idea of what you want to use it for. It really is a great solution for both live and in the studio. The direct thing is just my preferance but I already think that the direct on this thing is better then running an ISO cab. It Definitely eliminates the boxyness.

 

[Gainfreak]

That's cool that you're having a good time with it Ralph. Thing is, cool gear comes out every year and I'd be a broke SOB if i dropped dough on everything that came out.

There have been plenty of killer preamps that have come out over the years but i guess they just didn't have all the effects built in or didn't really come close to tube tones. The Triaxis comes to mind since i never liked that unit.

The Axe-fx sounds cool but after you get a good power amp, that's a pretty big price tag.

Dude! I'm already broke but as with every piece of gear you have to weigh out your options. I already have a poweramp and speakers, so that's not an extra cost for me. In order to get my live rig to do what this thing does I had to create a rack with a GCX audio switcher,Rack Tuner, Effects unit,power conditioner,hush, parametric eq and midi pedal. thats a relatively small rack and it still took up 6 spaces. Oh year Add in the wire used and and amp. now check it

MKIV- $1200 used
GCX - $300 used
Rocktron xpression $220 used
Furman PQ3 $80 used
Tuner $120 used
ISP Decimator rack $300

see what I mean? Plus my new band already has interest in other states. id rather bring a 2 space rack and a midi pedal and have a cab supplied. Like I said you have to weigh out the options.

 

[Gainfreak]

Isn't this the case with most modelers? The problem is never really the preamp, it's the power amp. Once they figure out how to model real power tube saturation, then it will be over for tube amps.

I think it is part of the issue, but certainly not all. I have used POD's into VHT power amps and there was still a lot of work arounds needed and they never felt right to me. Sounded just fine, but the feel wasn't there.

The Axe Fx sounds right and feels right through tube or SS power amps.

FWIW< I seem to be gravitating more and more to using it with my Carvin DCM600 SS power amp instead of tube power amps, but the other options sound and feel good too. I even like it through powered monitors.

I worked with a POD and a poweramp for hours and it still sounded like shit, felt like shit and you could never use your volume knob to control the amount of feel or gain. The Line 6 2x12 amps were much better but you still could not use the volume knob on higher gain patches!

 

[Audioholic]

Going FRFR, you do get more possibilities of different sounds, being able to use power amp modeling more so then what sounds good going into a poweramp cab, but the feel and realism was much more this way then going into QSC. Don't get me wrong, some patches sounded fantastic with the qsc's, and monitoring was good, but I still prefer me some guitar speakers and amp for ultimate guitar rig like.

 

[Code001]

So when are you gonna sell your Mark IV?

 

[stratotone]

Welcome to the dark side Ralph.

I have a lot of options for running my axe - and the big advantage I've found to running it with a QSC or full range setup is that if you get a happening tone like that, it's going to be the same out the front.

Even if you use a tube power amp and cabs onstage, I'd recommend using the direct outs because you can run those from the 2nd output - this allows you to keep the same levels to the soundboard and you can change your onstage volume however you need without screwing with the FOH mix. Plus through a PA, I've never been that happy with my FOH tone once it's miked and stuff - the axe just gives you the same thing every time, which I really dig.

Been using my QSC setup last few gigs, have an outdoor gig (biker one on halloween, can't wait to see what the biker chicks are going to wear for costumes) that is out in the boonies, so I can run as loud as I want onstage. I'm thinking of running a really 'too much hassle to do this at every pissant gig' setup - either W/D/W or in stereo with two half stacks - my ractifier or Randall MTS head running one Marshall 4x12 and my Bogner on the other. Or maybe 'just' a Randall RT2/50 power amp in stereo running two 4x12s, 6L6s on one side, KT88s on the other.

Pete