Interesting Video on Mic Preamps

[skoora]

It’s lengthy, but he goes over a lot and it’s not dull.

 

[skoora]

And there’s already a “wait just a minute” video….that is also enlightening.

 

[pipelineaudio]

I did the same tests as Jim Lill a few years ago to dispel some religious myths, he did an excellent job. I've done dozens of videos debunking the claims of Andrew Chapman. One guy brings the receipts, the other guy runs away every time you try any sort o objective test

 

[7704A]

I did the same tests as Jim Lill a few years ago to dispel some religious myths, he did an excellent job. I've done dozens of videos debunking the claims of Andrew Chapman. One guy brings the receipts, the other guy runs away every time you try any sort o objective test

Hey, glad you're still around, haven't seen you in a while! Or maybe it's just me that's been gone. Was starting to think the corksniffery here had scared you off.

 

[pipelineaudio]

Nah, this forum is great! Never had a mod here mute or ban me in defense of religious nuttery. I' doing a stream in a second about some of these response videos. I stopped doing Andrew Chapman stuff for a while because its always the same story: guy makes claims while absolutely refusing to take any measurements, runs away when asked to provide receipts, rinse and repeat.

 

[skoora]

I did the same tests as Jim Lill a few years ago to dispel some religious myths, he did an excellent job. I've done dozens of videos debunking the claims of Andrew Chapman. One guy brings the receipts, the other guy runs away every time you try any sort o objective test

I liked the effort he put in but I heard differences in three pre’s the last time I was trying some with my 18i20. So even though a lot of what he said seemed reasonable I’ve heard differently in person.

 

[pipelineaudio]

I liked the effort he put in but I heard differences in three pre’s the last time I was trying some with my 18i20. So even though a lot of what he said seemed reasonable I’ve heard differently in person.

This is the typical argument from trust my ears bro. We all think we hear this, the difference is, some of us actually do objective tests, not trust my ears bro

 

[7704A]

Nah, this forum is great! Never had a mod here mute or ban me in defense of religious nuttery.

Good point.

I' doing a stream in a second about some of these response videos.

Watching. Edit: Here:

 

[skoora]

This is the typical argument from trust my ears bro. We all think we hear this, the difference is, some of us actually do objective tests, not trust my ears bro

Well if I don’t trust my ears what’s the point of working with or enjoying music at all? Of course I’m going to trust my ears. When I was an Engineer it was explicit to trust your ears. It works both ways. Plenty of times something cheap and “shitty” was actually the better choice, whether it be artistically or technically.
There’s a difference between trusting your ears and getting caught up in sentimentality. I don’t give a shit about the rep or image of gear. I only care if it will deliver what I’m looking for.

 

[Toneboner]

The big difference I hear is that this guy is an unwatchable twat,, and Jim is not

 

[pipelineaudio]

Well if I don’t trust my ears what’s the point of working with or enjoying music at all?

Two different tools for two different goals. If you think you can trust your ears to evaluate small differences in signals you don’t understand physics, chemistry, biology or psychology. It’s not opinion its simple math.

 

[skoora]

Two different tools for two different goals. If you think you can trust your ears to evaluate small differences in signals you don’t understand physics, chemistry, biology or psychology. It’s not opinion it’s simple math.

It only matters if people are emotionally influenced in what they choose. No one is calling Bill Nye to bring the test rack by when they want to make a decision between a few pieces of gear. They use their ears. Experienced people are not going to care what the logo is or how much it costs. They’re only going to care about what they hear. If you (not specific you) can’t discern a difference then you pick the cheapest one and have at it.

 

[pipelineaudio]

So that would be an ad hominem, and as typical, the snake oil pedlers only have textbook logical fallacies while we in the reality based community bring the actual evidence.

If you think you can hear the difference better than chance you are doing far better than the biggest producers and engineers in the world who so famously failed this test in the two highest profile cases, or to be fair, some of these consistently picked the ART and Mackie mic pres as the best.

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/preamp-post-mortem

 

[skoora]

So that would be an ad hominem, and as typical, the snake oil pedlers only have textbook logical fallacies while we in the reality based community bring the actual evidence.

If you think you can hear the difference better than chance you are doing far better than the biggest producers and engineers in the world who so famously failed this test in the two highest profile cases, or to be fair, some of these consistently picked the ART and Mackie mic pres as the best.

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/preamp-post-mortem

Whether they picked cheap or expensive they heard something. A while back I chose an ART (same one in that article) myself. I was looking for additional inputs for my scarlett and decided to try a WA12, the ART (both used) and then see how they sounded vs. the Scarlett because just getting an octopre was an option too. The WA12 (their take on API) sounded identical to the scarlett, certainly didn't reveal any magic driving it, so was a no but the ART had a little more that appealed to me in the low end. Was it slight, yes. Could it have been compensated with a little EQ going through the Scarlett? Probably. But I heard it.
You seem to think I'm advocating for what costs more is better or something when I'm absolutely not. I don't care if it's Behringer or Heritage or SSL. I'm not even in a position to spend that kind of money and probably wouldn't if I had it because the diminishing returns are enormous. Even that article in its conclusion says not all preamps will sound identical, just that the differences are so small they aren't the important part of the process vs. mic selection, placement, performance etc Which I agree with but I'm not in agreement that all pre's are identical in sound.

Not unreasonable to probably focus on the feature set of the preamp for price point in how it will help work flow over wringing hands over what will it sound like.

 

[JimmyGrim]

Well if I don’t trust my ears what’s the point of working with or enjoying music at all? Of course I’m going to trust my ears. When I was an Engineer it was explicit to trust your ears. It works both ways. Plenty of times something cheap and “shitty” was actually the better choice, whether it be artistically or technically.
There’s a difference between trusting your ears and getting caught up in sentimentality. I don’t give a shit about the rep or image of gear. I only care if it will deliver what I’m looking for.

Exactly. Gear is just a tool, and the result is what matters. If something cheap gives you the response, tone, or workflow you need, there’s no reason to dismiss it because of price or reputation. The important part is knowing the difference between your actual experience and just buying into hype.

 

[Solarflares]