Libtard village in Seattle.

[MadAsAHatter]

Throughout American history, several U.S. presidents have been linked to significant crimes, unconstitutional acts, or major political scandals—ranging from federal lawbreaking to covert operations and financial corruption.

High-Profile Crimes and Scandals​

1. Richard Nixon — Watergate & Cover-Up​

• The Offenses: Conspiracy, obstruction of justice, and abuse of power.
• Details: Following a 1972 break-in at the Democratic National Committee headquarters at the Watergate complex, President Nixon personally directed efforts to block FBI investigations, orchestrate hush-money payments, and use federal agencies (such as the IRS and CIA) to target political opponents.
• Outcome: Faced with imminent impeachment and conviction, Nixon resigned in August 1974. He was later granted a full presidential pardon by Gerald Ford.

2. Ronald Reagan — The Iran-Contra Affair​

• The Offenses: Violations of federal law (specifically the Boland Amendment) and statutory prohibitions against negotiating or trading arms with state sponsors of terrorism.
• Details: Senior officials in the Reagan administration secretly facilitated the sale of weapons to Iran (then under an arms embargo) in exchange for hostages. The proceeds were illegally diverted to fund the Contras, a right-wing rebel group in Nicaragua, explicitly violating congressional funding bans.
• Outcome: While multiple administration officials (including Lt. Col. Oliver North and National Security Advisor John Poindexter) were indicted or convicted, Congressional investigations concluded that Reagan's oversight was lax, though he was not personally charged.

3. Bill Clinton — Perjury and Obstruction of Justice​

• The Offenses: Perjury (lying under oath) and obstruction of justice.
• Details: During a sworn deposition in a civil sexual harassment lawsuit (Paula Jones case), President Clinton lied about his relationship with White House intern Monica Lewinsky. Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr subsequently referred the findings to Congress.
• Outcome: Clinton was impeached by the House of Representatives in 1998 for perjury and obstruction of justice. He was acquitted by the Senate. He later paid a fine, agreed to a temporary suspension of his law license, and settled civil claims.

4. Donald Trump — Federal and State Criminal Convictions & Indictments​

• The Offenses: Falsifying business records, federal charges regarding the mishandling of classified documents, and conspiracy related to election interference.
• Details: Trump became the first former U.S. president to be convicted of felony crimes when a New York state jury found him guilty in 2024 on 34 counts of falsifying business records. He was also indicted in federal court for retaining classified national defense documents post-presidency and attempting to overturn the 2020 election results.

5. Warren G. Harding — The Teapot Dome Scandal​

• The Offenses: Bribery, mail fraud, and conspiracy (committed by key cabinet officials).
• Details: Harding's Secretary of the Interior, Albert Fall, accepted bribes from private oil executives in exchange for secret, non-competitive leases to federal naval oil reserves at Teapot Dome, Wyoming, and Elk Hills, California.
• Outcome: Secretary Fall became the first U.S. cabinet member convicted of a felony and sent to prison. Harding died in office in 1923 before the full extent of the scandal emerged, though his administration remains associated with deep systemic corruption.

Historical Actions Criticized as Gross Violations or State Crimes​

Beyond technical criminal law, historians and legal scholars frequently cite acts committed under executive authority that resulted in major human rights violations or illegal actions under international law:

• Andrew Jackson (Forced Removal & Defiance of the Supreme Court Signed the Indian Removal Act of 1830 and defied the Supreme Court's ruling in Worcester v. Georgia, leading to the Trail of Tears—the forced, brutal displacement of tens of thousands of Native Americans that resulted in thousands of deaths.
• Franklin D. Roosevelt (Executive Order 9066 Authorized the forced internment of over 120,000 Japanese Americans during World War II without trial or due process, a move later recognized by Congress as a grave injustice driven by racial prejudice.
• Lyndon B. Johnson & Richard Nixon (Secret Bombing Campaigns Authorized covert military interventions and unapproved bombing campaigns in Cambodia and Laos during the Vietnam War without Congressional approval, leading to massive civilian casualties.

Throughout U.S. history, several other presidents have been implicated in federal lawbreaking, severe corruption, human rights violations, or extrajudicial acts that bypassed legal authority.

 

[MadAsAHatter]

Presidential Misconduct, Financial Scandals, & Abuse of Power​

1. Ulysses S. Grant — Systematic Corruption & The Whiskey Ring (1870s)​

• The Offenses: Unlawful diversion of federal tax revenue, bribery, and obstruction of justice.
• Details: While Grant was not personally indicted for stealing funds, his administration was riddled with criminal conspiracies. The most severe was the Whiskey Ring, in which government officials and distillers siphoned off millions in tax revenues through bribery. Grant personally intervened to protect his private secretary, Orville Babcock, who was indicted in the conspiracy, by providing written deposition testimony in his defense.

2. George W. Bush — Torture, Extrajudicial Rendition, & Mass Surveillance (2000s)​

• The Offenses: Violations of the U.S. Anti-Torture Statute, Geneva Conventions, and federal wiretapping laws.
• Details: Following the September 11 attacks, the Bush administration authorized covert CIA "black site" interrogations utilizing methods internationally recognized as torture (including waterboarding, sleep deprivation, and stress positions). The administration also authorized extraordinary rendition (secretly kidnapping suspects to transfer them to countries where torture was permitted) and created the NSA's warrantless domestic surveillance program without court warrants, bypassing the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA).

3. Dwight D. Eisenhower — Human Rights Violations in MKUltra & Covert Coups (1950s)​

• The Offenses: Non-consensual human experimentation, illegal covert foreign interventions, and targeted assassinations.
• Details: In 1953, President Eisenhower’s administration approved Project MKUltra, a covert CIA initiative that tested psychoactive drugs (such as LSD), sensory deprivation, and psychological torture techniques on unwitting American and Canadian citizens without informed consent. Additionally, Eisenhower authorized covert CIA operations to overthrow democratically elected governments in Iran (1953) and Guatemala (1954).

4. Lyndon B. Johnson — Unlawful Domestic Surveillance & Civil Rights Spying (1960s)​

• The Offenses: Violations of the CIA Charter (National Security Act of 1947) prohibiting domestic intelligence gathering.
• Details: To monitor anti-war protesters and civil rights leaders, President Johnson directed federal agencies to spy on U.S. citizens domestically. This led to Operation CHAOS, a massive CIA surveillance program that collected files on tens of thousands of American dissidents, as well as expanded FBI wiretapping under COINTELPRO against figures like Martin Luther King Jr.

Executive Overreach & Civil Liberties Violations​

5. Abraham Lincoln — Suspension of Habeas Corpus (1861)​

• The Offenses: Unconstitutional suspension of civil liberties and unauthorized executive detention.
• Details: At the start of the American Civil War, President Lincoln unilaterally suspended the writ of habeas corpus without congressional approval, allowing military authorities to arrest and detain thousands of Confederate sympathizers and anti-war newspaper editors without trial. When Chief Justice Roger Taney ruled in Ex parte Merryman that only Congress held the constitutional authority to suspend the writ, Lincoln ignored the court order.

6. Thomas Jefferson — Enforcement of the Embargo Act of 1807​

• The Offenses: Unconstitutional search and seizure and warrantless military enforcement against citizens.
• Details: To enforce a strict trade embargo against Britain and France, Jefferson authorized federal agents and naval officers to search homes, seize merchant ships, and confiscate cargo without standard judicial warrants, leading critics to accuse him of violating Fourth Amendment protections.

Summary Overview​

President	Era	Core Allegations / Acts	Outcome / Resolution
Ulysses S. Grant	1870s	Tax evasion conspiracies (Whiskey Ring), widespread cabinet graft.	Dozens of officials convicted; Grant defended top aides.
Dwight D. Eisenhower	1950s	MKUltra human testing, secret foreign regime change.	Uncovered by Church Committee investigations in 1970s.
Lyndon B. Johnson	1960s	Domestic CIA spying on anti-war protesters (Operation CHAOS).	Declassified in 1970s; restricted by Church Committee reforms.
George W. Bush	2000s	Torture programs, extrajudicial rendition, warrantless surveillance.	Red Cross & Senate reports cited torture; surveillance codified/reformed later.

 

[JamesTiberiusKirk]

Stop trying to change your premise. You said:

View attachment 463827
Are you saying your measure of evil is falsifying business records and being sued in civil court? That's what it seems like.


I've already acknowledged that several times, even in my last response to you. For whatever reason you don't want to comprehend that. Besides, those facts aren't being argued. They are set in record. What I've been asking of you since the beginning is to provide an examination and comparison to other presidents that show Trump is measurably more evil than any other president. I even gave you a decent framework to start with.

Here, I'll help you out a little more since it only took a few seconds to ask AI. Take these acts committed by other presidents and make the comparison to Trump. You said there is enough info that it would overload Rig-Talk servers, but you keep harping on those two things. So again back up your statement.

BTW; My subjective opinion is human rights violations and torture mentioned in the info below would be more evil than falsifying business records and losing a civil case. But if you'd like to argue the opposite and provide a comprehensive comparison I'm all ears.

I have to put the info in separate post due to forum limitations.

34 felony convictions by one vs 0 by all the others combined. I know I'm repeating myself but I can't make it any simpler or explain it in any other way.

1 sexual assault conviction vs 0 by all the others combined. I know I'm repeating myself but I can't make it any simpler or explain it in any other way.

Those alone make him the MEASUREABLE worst president in history.

I can't explain it any simpler. 34 is larger than zero. 1 is also larger than zero.

I'm not gonna try again. (yes I hear the cheers) If this doesn't sink in I surrender.

 

[JamesTiberiusKirk]

In those two LONG posts of yours, how many felony convictions resulted?

ZERO.

 

[MadAsAHatter]

34 felony convictions by one vs 0 by all the others combined. I know I'm repeating myself but I can't make it any simpler or explain it in any other way.

1 sexual assault conviction vs 0 by all the others combined. I know I'm repeating myself but I can't make it any simpler or explain it in any other way.

Those alone make him the MEASUREABLE worst president in history.

Why do you keep changing the premise from evil to worse? Those are 2 different concepts. Your original statement was:

So you consider convictions for falsifying business records and being sued and losing a civil case (he was not convicted of anything in a criminal court) measurably more evil than the presidents who owned slaves, had enemies tortured, facilitated weapons sales that resulted in deaths, facilitated the trail of tears, had Japanese Americans placed in internment camps, and/or facilitated non-consensual human experimentation?

I can't explain it any simpler. 34 is larger than zero. 1 is also larger than zero.

I'm not gonna try again. (yes I hear the cheers) If this doesn't sink in I surrender.

Considered you never tried in the first place; even after I gave you a framework and some information to help you start, it doesn't make sense that you'd try again. I originally asked for the analysis and comparison to other presidents and you've yet to come close to doing that. Just been spouting 34 iS laRGeR ThAn ZerO!!! It fails to make a measure and comparison of evil between presidents; completely ignoring the actions.

I guess this ends up being another time you've dug yourself into a hole by running your mouth and can't get out. Playing the arrogant smartest person in the room game has failed you yet again.

 

[Shevek]

Five particularly strong pieces of evidence
1. Attempted to overturn a democratic election. Trump pressured Georgia's Republican secretary of state to find exactly 11,780 votes, despite recounts confirming his defeat. The bipartisan January 6 committee investigation documented his broader efforts to remain in power unlawfully.


2. Was convicted of 34 felonies. A unanimous jury found Trump guilty of falsifying business records to conceal payments connected to the 2016 election. He became the first former U.S. president convicted of a felony.

3. Separated thousands of children from their parents. His administration's zero-tolerance immigration policy separated approximately 3,000 children during its principal implementation period, with inadequate systems to reunite families. Some children remained separated for months or longer.


4. Endangered the peaceful transfer of power. Despite repeated warnings from his own advisers that election fraud allegations were false, Trump pressured Mike Pence to interfere with certification. The January 6 committee concluded that his false claims helped provoke the Capitol violence. These are investigative findings, not criminal convictions.


5. Put personal political interests above constitutional obligations. The Georgia recording and documented pressure campaign provide unusually direct evidence of a president attempting to reverse voters' decision for his own benefit.

 

[tallcoolone]

Why do you keep changing the premise from evil to worse?

You won man, don’t waste any more time on this shrieking buffoon. He’s not worth your time (which judging by his join date and post count he has a WHOLE lot of)

 

[MadAsAHatter]

Five particularly strong pieces of evidence
1. Attempted to overturn a democratic election. Trump pressured Georgia's Republican secretary of state to find exactly 11,780 votes, despite recounts confirming his defeat. The bipartisan January 6 committee investigation documented his broader efforts to remain in power unlawfully.


2. Was convicted of 34 felonies. A unanimous jury found Trump guilty of falsifying business records to conceal payments connected to the 2016 election. He became the first former U.S. president convicted of a felony.

3. Separated thousands of children from their parents. His administration's zero-tolerance immigration policy separated approximately 3,000 children during its principal implementation period, with inadequate systems to reunite families. Some children remained separated for months or longer.


4. Endangered the peaceful transfer of power. Despite repeated warnings from his own advisers that election fraud allegations were false, Trump pressured Mike Pence to interfere with certification. The January 6 committee concluded that his false claims helped provoke the Capitol violence. These are investigative findings, not criminal convictions.


5. Put personal political interests above constitutional obligations. The Georgia recording and documented pressure campaign provide unusually direct evidence of a president attempting to reverse voters' decision for his own benefit.

Okay, so how does all this compare to every other president's actions and what metrics are you using to establish "Trump is measurably the most evil president you've [the US] has ever had. It's not even close"

 

[MadAsAHatter]

You won man, don’t waste any more time on this shrieking buffoon. He’s not worth your time (which judging by his join date and post count he has a WHOLE lot of)

It kind of amusing watching him flail about as he keeps digging his hole deeper. At this point I think he put down the shovel and rented a backhoe.

 

[JamesTiberiusKirk]

You won man, don’t waste any more time on this shrieking buffoon. He’s not worth your time (which judging by his join date and post count he has a WHOLE lot of)

So, if I reply "meanly" to you, know that you cast the first stone........fuckface.

 

[JamesTiberiusKirk]

Why do you keep changing the premise from evil to worse? Those are 2 different concepts. Your original statement was:
View attachment 463829
So you consider convictions for falsifying business records and being sued and losing a civil case (he was not convicted of anything in a criminal court) measurably more evil than the presidents who owned slaves, had enemies tortured, facilitated weapons sales that resulted in deaths, facilitated the trail of tears, had Japanese Americans placed in internment camps, and/or facilitated non-consensual human experimentation?


Considered you never tried in the first place; even after I gave you a framework and some information to help you start, it doesn't make sense that you'd try again. I originally asked for the analysis and comparison to other presidents and you've yet to come close to doing that. Just been spouting 34 iS laRGeR ThAn ZerO!!! It fails to make a measure and comparison of evil between presidents; completely ignoring the actions.

I guess this ends up being another time you've dug yourself into a hole by running your mouth and can't get out. Playing the arrogant smartest person in the room game has failed you yet again.

My case was made. I'm tired of repeating myself, something you obviously don't tire of doing.

Another example of you regurgitating the same broken rebuttals over and over and over again thinking that repeating them makes them right. At least you got an new ally in tall drooling one. There's a small victory for you.

 

[MadAsAHatter]

My case was made. I'm tired of repeating myself, something you obviously don't tire of doing.

Another example of you regurgitating the same broken rebuttals over and over and over again thinking that repeating them makes them right. At least you got an new ally in tall drooling one. There's a small victory for you.

I'd need to have something to rebut to make a rebuttal. So fat you haven't provided anything. I keep asking for your analysis and comparison to other presidents that objectively shows "Trump is measurably the most evil president you've [the US] has ever had. It's not even close". You keep failing to do so to back up your bold statement. Heck, even your buddy Shrek provided more. I'm just waiting on him to give me his comparison to other presidents and metrics.

 

[JamesTiberiusKirk]

Here's a metric: 34 to 0.

That's enough to prove my point.

Here's another for free, 150 dead school girls. He's almost as good at that as a years worth of school shooters down there.

I'm don't care enough about this any more to look up the number of murdered in the Caribbean. That's another metric.

 

[MadAsAHatter]

Here's a metric: 34 to 0.

That's enough to prove my point.

Here's another for free, 150 dead school girls. He's almost as good at that as a years worth of school shooters down there.

I'm don't care enough about this any more to look up the number of murdered in the Caribbean. That's another metric.

Point not proven.

Again, you keep listing the same thing. Well at least this time you listed something else. So that's some progress, however little. Now how does that objectively show "Trump is measurably the most evil president you've [the US] has ever had. It's not even close". Let's see your analysis.

Edit:
Scratch the above. I know you won't provide anything of substance since muh 34 felonies seems to be all you can muster.

Answer this one question:
Do you consider convictions for falsifying business records measurably more evil than the presidents who owned slaves, had enemies tortured, facilitated weapons sales that resulted in deaths, facilitated the trail of tears, had Japanese Americans placed in internment camps, and/or facilitated non-consensual human experimentation?

 

[Floyd Eye]

Better watch your blood pressure. Did I make you mad? Hope so.

Yeah. laughing emojis means I'm mad.
You just can't stop showing everyone how fucking dumb you are can you ?

 

[MadAsAHatter]

Yeah. laughing emojis means I'm mad.
You just can't stop showing everyone how fucking dumb you are can you ?

Earl really can't help himself. It's like a sickness.

 

[JamesTiberiusKirk]

Hello fellas. How's a boy tonight?

Fonzie Floyd and The Mercury Huffer. Hey guys, how ya doin?

Hey Floyd, did you huff and puff and act real tough out there today?

Hey Mercury Man. Did you spin an LP and that scratch just make it repeat itself over and over and over and over never getting to the point?

I'm doing well, thanks for asking. Having a wonderful evening playing guitar. You guys should take it up. Might help you relax.

 

[Floyd Eye]

I guess everything seems tough when you're a complete fucking pussy.

 

[MadAsAHatter]

Hey Mercury Man. Did you spin an LP and that scratch just make it repeat itself over and over and over and over never getting to the point?

I wouldn't have to keep repeating myself if you would actually address the topic at hand. All you've done is repeat 34 is less than 0 referencing Trump's felony convictions. You have not explained your reasoning on how and why this supports your statement of:

Trump is measurably more evil than any president you've had. It's not even close.

Saying point proven doesn't support/prove anything in regards to the discussion at hand. Assertion of a conclusion doesn't replace the need for logical reasoning. At best it's false reasoning using a logical shortcut to justify your conclusion without analysis of supporting evidence.

This all seems to be too complicated for you so I'm going to make this extremely easy using the single stat you've repeated endlessly. It's a subjective opinion that only requires a yes or no answer to the following question.

Do you consider Trump's 34 felony convictions for falsifying business records measurably more evil than the presidents who owned slaves, had enemies tortured, facilitated illegal weapons sales that resulted in deaths, facilitated the trail of tears, had Japanese Americans placed in internment camps, and/or facilitated non-consensual human experimentation?

 

[VonBonfire]

Do you consider Trump's 34 felony convictions for falsifying business records measurably more evil than the presidents who owned slaves, had enemies tortured, facilitated illegal weapons sales that resulted in deaths, facilitated the trail of tears, had Japanese Americans placed in internment camps, and/or facilitated non-consensual human experimentation?

I have to agree with the argument you presented here. Nicely done.