Mesa 4x12 Wiring: Before and After

And what if there was a difference but you made the change on a shit hearing day? I am guessing in some instances with some speakers and cabs it will be more noticeable than others. I do think any differences would be more noticeable with speakers that have more high frequencies. Alot of speculation and a sample size of one likely means in this instance there was no noticeable change, but someone else's rig may change more.
 
Think about what the rating is first, not tin foil hat thinking. The ampacity for awg#18 for continuous load is 5.6A@80% still far above what a 100w amp requires. Keep in mind this is the minimum size I've seen used which still exceeds the 2.5A for a 100w amp by more than double. Anything being stated here is imaginary losses that are not proven.
 
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And what if there was a difference but you made the change on a shit hearing day? I am guessing in some instances with some speakers and cabs it will be more noticeable than others. I do think any differences would be more noticeable with speakers that have more high frequencies. Alot of speculation and a sample size of one likely means in this instance there was no noticeable change, but someone else's rig may change more.
This is huge. I think @FourT6and2 also brought up ear memory. That shit is short as fuck. That is one reason I cant speak to the differences that I have made. Sometimes i start a project, then get distracted by life and don't finish it quickly. The difference in sound that one gauge could make in sound is something that could also be dialed out by eq. It is a lot of unknowns

A lot of the changes I make with gear is when several things build up and I do them all at once. That is highly unproductive to analyzing the differences of one change also.
 
This is huge. I think @FourT6and2 also brought up ear memory. That shit is short as fuck. That is one reason I cant speak to the differences that I have made. Sometimes i start a project, then get distracted by life and don't finish it quickly. The difference in sound that one gauge could make in sound is something that could also be dialed out by eq. It is a lot of unknowns

A lot of the changes I make with gear is when several things build up and I do them all at once. That is highly unproductive to analyzing the differences of one change also.
Just like dudes swapping pickups and new strings assured it's the pickups making all the difference and not the nasty ass old strings having anything to do with the improvement.
 
I can see bigger wire making a difference in terms of amperage capacity because I know you can trip a circuit breaker by using a cheap thin extension cable for a space heater. I am not sure about tone.

I would like to hear clips of the PS / SP switch.
There are three components to impedance - resistance, which makes up the "real" part of the impedance, and capacitance and inductance, which are respectively the negative and positive components of reactance, which is the "imaginary" component of impedance (using "real" and "imaginary" in mathematical terms).

What you bring up has the do with the resistive portion (mostly) - a conductor of a given cross-sectional area and length will have a certain resistance. Resistance means heat, which, in excess, will destroy the conductor. Conductors of equal length but with different cross-sectional areas will have different resistances - a smaller conductor will have a larger resistance, and vice versa.

When we are talking about speaker cabs in particular, you want a large enough conductor to carry the current of the output transformer secondary. The output current of the secondary is pretty low relative to the capacity of these conductors. For example, from the NFPA 70 (the electrical code), a 14 AWG conductor in free air is at a minimum rated for 25A, which is probably something like 10 times what the output of the transformer is. Of course the NFPA 70 is written with 60Hz in mind, and a guitar amp operates at a large range of frequencies, but it is important to keep in mind that resistance is not a frequency dependent quantity, and as resistance is the component of impedance that causes heating, we can be fairly comfortable that the ampacity of the cable is not greatly impacted from frequency. There are OTHER considerations impacted by frequency but they are not relevant for our application.

So, from a capacity perspective there is no real concern here. Now, on to the tonal discussion - what are the potential impacts to tone? We return to our impedance - all three components of impedance have a potential impact on "tone" as any impedance acts as a filter. Of particular interest are the reactive components of impedance, because they are frequency dependent. That is to say, inductive and capacitive elements have a variable attenuating effect on AC signals that changes with the frequency of the signals.

Here is the thing - the reactive components of a copper or aluminum conductor's impedance are pretty damn small relative to the resistive components. They are more importantly small compared to the reactive component of the SPEAKERS impedance.

Thus, my assertion that these claims of substantial tonal changes between speaker wire are silly. I'm not saying that there is literally no difference - electrically speaking, there definitely is. But as with most things, it is a question of degrees.
 
This is huge. I think @FourT6and2 also brought up ear memory. That shit is short as fuck. That is one reason I cant speak to the differences that I have made. Sometimes i start a project, then get distracted by life and don't finish it quickly. The difference in sound that one gauge could make in sound is something that could also be dialed out by eq. It is a lot of unknowns

A lot of the changes I make with gear is when several things build up and I do them all at once. That is highly unproductive to analyzing the differences of one change also.

Which is why I did this with two identical cabs.

And if there is a difference, but it's so small and insignificant that you need a cab switching device just to hear it, then fine... in that hypothetical case, there's a difference. But does it even matter?

Think about this: people are claiming they rewired their cabs with a different (same) wiring scheme and/or changed the gauge of wire and it made a difference so drastic that it was immediately noticeable after a few hours. Because that's how long it takes to do this shit. And yet... you also need a cab switcher just to hear the difference because it's so minute, your ears can't remember the difference?

No. You can't have it both ways.


The only time wire gauge matters, in this context, is to manage insertion loss. i.e. the cable running from amp to cab. If you're running 20 feet of cable, then you might need to move to a thicker gauge. And the math on this isn't difficult. It's all about total loop resistance. I'm not going to write a dissertation about it here because it's already been done by people much smarter than me. But it boils down to: if your cable runs are so long that insertion loss is a real concern, use one or two gauges larger. But this only applies to running speaker cabs across distances on a massive stadium stage.

Even at 10 feet with "tiny" 18 AWG, with a 100W amp, the power loss is only about 0.07 dB. That's completely imperceptible to the human ear.
 
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Ok, here are my findings over the years with MANY cab experiments/rewirings/batting installs/etc:

First, changing out my 70s Marshall cab wiring for lamp cord hardware store 14 gauge didn't change anything. That was disappointing and a waste of time.

However, re wiring my JCM era stereo cabs to mono input and series/parallel AND using the same lamp cord DID change a tone for the better. Probably mostly because I got rid of that damn mono/stereo jack plate.

Installing batting ALA Bogner/Rivera/Fender Tonemaster cabs DID focus the sound more, and was kinda cool BUT removed a lot of the projection/resonance. So if you want to do that, you'll sacrifice something.

But, the BIGGEST difference in ANY vintage cab I've ever bought was checking ALL of the screws. I can't begin to tell you how many cabs needed ALL of those screws tightened down, and how much BETTER those cabs sounded after I did. Like a whole new experience.

Lastly, I have no idea how anyone comes to the conclusion that using an 8 ohm vs 4 ohm vs 16 ohm wired cab, when matching it with the amps output setting changes the perceived output??? It should still stomp the same no matter what ohm cab you're using. The only difference would be the EQ response....a 16 ohm cab would seem to have more lows, highs while the same cab but 8 ohm would have more mids, less lows, highs...4 ohm might be more evenly balanced? They should all have the same perceived output.
 
Yes, agree 200% that the mechanical condition/specifics of a cab usually are way more impactful than the minute differences between 2 different good quality internal cable types (providing all those cables are properly installed and of the same wiring scheme).

Just throwing out there another example / data point:
one of my all time sounding favorite 60's Marshall 4x12 ('66 slant Pinstripe) didn't even have matching cables, I remember re-wiring it with some leftover pieces of old Marshall wiring harness (the black & red 18-19 awg used back then) and patched in some teflon wires I had on hand for the missing pieces between speakers.
 
You guys are all completely off-base. You need to wire your cabs with 10 gauge SOLID CORE wire. Guaranteed to deliver 300% more toan.

Braided core wire generates vibrations and unpleasant undertoans.
 
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