NAD: Fortin Evil Pumpkin

[S̷͖͑m̵͎͂á̵̺s̸͚̈́h̴̬̑]

This statement is only partially correct.

RFT EL34 from the 60's and 70's, Mullard EL34 from the 60's and 70's and RCA 6L6GC blackplate from the late 50's and 60's have an almost infinite lifespan.

I have measured these tube types after a reliably assured rehearsal & live use of a total of up to 3,000 hours with at least 70-80% residual power.

That is great because I have NOS RFT in my amp now.

 

[Racerxrated]

This statement is only partially correct.

RFT EL34 from the 60's and 70's, Mullard EL34 from the 60's and 70's and RCA 6L6GC blackplate from the late 50's and 60's have an almost infinite lifespan.

I have measured these tube types after a reliably assured rehearsal & live use of a total of up to 3,000 hours with at least 70-80% residual power.

THIS.

Maybe the vintage tube market will come back down a bit, so everyone can grab some for their stash. Glad I built mine up over the years.
Been running my Siemens 34s in my Marshalls for years now and not one failure. None of them were NOS purchases...used only.

 

[Beyond Black]

"Her last one, came out Sideways....."

She didn’t scream or nothin…

 

[FourT6and2]

THIS.

Maybe the vintage tube market will come back down a bit, so everyone can grab some for their stash. Glad I built mine up over the years.
Been running my Siemens 34s in my Marshalls for years now and not one failure. None of them were NOS purchases...used only.

Do you have actual Siemens EL34s or Siemens-branded RFTs?

 

[Techdeth]

I’ve had both Larry and the Satan if this counts for anything . Idk ? While the Larry destroys the Satan , the Satan is pretty fucking solid . I’d expect the EP to be better than the Satan for sure . If we lived close we could compare them . Woukd be killer

 

[Techdeth]

That is great because I have NOS RFT in my amp now.

Me too

 

[Racerxrated]

Do you have actual Siemens EL34s or Siemens-branded RFTs?

What I have are the dimple top, skinny glass envelope, and shallow/small base EL34s. They almost look like 'miniature' EL34s compared to other 34s. I've always considered these Siemens W Germany....but, maybe they're RFTs. I guess I'm not exactly sure...they're German for sure....and, they handle the high voltage in my 72 without difficulty. I have heard that either RFT or Siemens are NOT able to handle high PV. They've also been in a 2010 Wizard MC 100, no issues with that voltage and if I remember right that amp was in the 570v range (unloaded).

 

[Racerxrated]

All of mine are just like these STR 450s at Mesa...or, used to be available. Same exact dimensions/base/etc.

https://store.mesaboogie.com/products/power-tubes-el34-str-450-siemens-nos-matched-pair.html

 

[FourT6and2]

Home from my trip and got to briefly play the amp. Not at loud volumes, but at least make sure it's working. Once I re-biased and figured out the controls, I got some good preliminary sounds. Tons of tonal options on tap. The Sweep control is quite powerful. I dialed it in to what I thought sounded good and checked that KillerTone video posted earlier and the setting were almost identical to his, so it seems that's the sweet spot.

Overall, cool amp. It fits in nicely in my growing collection with the Hiwatt Super-Hi and Omega Grano without too much tonal overlap.

BTW, I looked back at that massive drama-filled thread about these being made in China. I had a look and the transformers are UK-made. The pots and jacks and switches are all PCB-mounted. The boards look to be high quality though. Overall, the build quality is good.

Will report back when I can really crank it.

 

[FourT6and2]

I’ve had both Larry and the Satan if this counts for anything . Idk ? While the Larry destroys the Satan , the Satan is pretty fucking solid . I’d expect the EP to be better than the Satan for sure . If we lived close we could compare them . Woukd be killer

I'd love to compare the NATAS, Satan, Thrasher, and EP. I think they're probably all quite similar. But I'm willing to bet the EP and Satan are closest to one another.

 

[Greazygeo]

Shuguang is the manufacturer.

What I've gathered is PM relabels tubes. Ruby also relabels tubes. However Ruby is the only company I've ever seen with their name on the BHT tube, which is manufactured in China by the same company who manufacturers the STR.

I used to buy these from CE Distribution. Just said made in China…same tube as the Ruby. They sounded good for about 6 months, the bottom end would go away. They had good bottom end for an el34 type tube.

 

[FourT6and2]

I used to buy these from CE Distribution. Just said made in China…same tube as the Ruby. They sounded good for about 6 months, the bottom end would go away. They had good bottom end for an el34 type tube.

Trying to decide what other tubes to try. Just run all EL34 or try EH or JJ 6CA7 + EL34.

 

[Techdeth]

I'd love to compare the NATAS, Satan, Thrasher, and EP. I think they're probably all quite similar. But I'm willing to bet the EP and Satan are closest to one another.

I expect EP to be fucjing killer

 

[novosibir]

BTW, I looked back at that massive drama-filled thread about these being made in China.

This one: FORTIN's Evil Pumpkin – Made in China?

I had a look and the transformers are UK-made.

What visible characteristics of the transformers did you use to determine this?

In any case, the end bells are not UK-made.
There is only one manufacturer of end bells in the UK and their end bells look different.

Look at my amps and you'll know what UK-made end bells look like.

So what reason could there be to mount NOT UK-made end bells on UK made transformers?

 

[novosibir]

I have heard that either RFT or Siemens are NOT able to handle high PV.

Siemens had never produced an EL34. If you see a "Siemens" printed EL34, then it's a rebranded RFT
RFT EL34's have been branded: Siemens, AEG, Telefunken, National, RSD, Egro, Ultron, Mesa, Ruby and Groove Tubes in the past.

In the past, various tube distributors had paid the holders of the naming rights of Siemens, AEG and Telefunken to be allowed to print their tubes with their names in order to suggest a higher quality - which would not have been necessary with RFT tubes, however, if people had known at that time what excellent quality these tubes had, which are in fact in no way inferior to a Mullard.

To your doubt:

In fact, it is not a too high PV that causes these tubes to die, but a too high SV (screen voltage).
However, this only applies to the last production batches of RFT from the end of 1987 and the years 1988 and 1989 until the time of the closure of the plant due to the opening of the GDR and reunification with the FRG.

The reason for this was that from 1987 onwards the production facilities were no longer maintained and the tubes thus had visibly higher tolerances and lower vacuum. These are the RFT EL34s that die more often from a voltage of 450 volts and higher on the screens.

Unfortunately, many tubes from these last production batches have also been delivered to Mesa and because of the rebranding it can no longer be read on the tube when it was produced.

A reliable indicator to distinguish good RFTs from critical RFTs is the shape of the "dimple" at the top of the glass envelope.
If the dimple is nice and round and even, then you have a good RFT, but if the dimple is fringed and uneven, which indicates a too cold glass weld, then you (unfortunately) have a critical RFT.

 

[novosibir]

Trying to decide what other tubes to try. Just run all EL34 or try EH or JJ 6CA7 + EL34.

The best sounding and most reliable EL34 currently produced is the Russian Tung Sol Reissue and it is also the EL34 that comes closest to the legendary RFT soundwise.

It has about 85-90% of the output power of an RFT (in new condition), has only slightly less punch and only slightly less mid complexity compared to the RFT, but an as nice break-up as the RFT when overdriven.

However, the Tung Sol Reissue (like all other currently produced power tubes) has nowhere near the lifespan of an RFT or Mullard. There are many reasons for this, but it would take too long to explain it here.
In my experience, you have to renew a Tung Sol reissue after 600 hours of play at the latest, depending on how loud you play, whereas an RFT or Mullard lasts at least 3,000 hours of play before you notice a drop in the output power, especially the punch.

Which EL34 I can't recommend:

Czech JJ EL34 and JJ E34L - these tubes sound nice and warm at home in the living room alone without a band, but in the band structure they are too diffuse in the bass and I often had unexpected failures with these tubes in the past due to internal shorts.

Chinese Shuguang EL34 - fat bass and lots of highs, but (almost) no mids. This tube reminds me more of a small 6550 than an EL34 in terms of sound, it is difficult to come through with the guitar in the band structure because of the underexposed mids and I used to have unexpected failures with this tube more often than only sometimes.

Russian EH EL34 - weak output power, little punch, only moderate midrange complexity, but obtrusively disgustingly scratchy highs. The ideal tube for masochists IMO

 

[the4thlast1]

I compared a lot of EL34s over the years in various amps.

The Tung-sol EL34s do sound very good, personally I found them to sound a bit different then most other EL34s though. They have a little 6L6 flavor to them which can be a good thing depending on what you want.

I don’t fully agree with Larry on the JJs. I think both the EL34 and the E34L are excellent sounding tubes. Though it does seem the EL34 can be prone to failing a little more often especially in higher plate voltage amps. The E34L should be me more rugged. The E34L will have more lowend and an aggressive grind in the low mids that the EL34. The regular EL34 has punchy tight bass and a very pleasing character with smooth top end. The EL34 is focused in the upper mids , it can be used to tame an amp that has a big or loose lowend where the E34L would do the opposite. I liked the regular EL34 playing live with a band because of the cutting mids But depending on the amp the E34L could have too much bass for a balanced mix.

I’m not sure about all the Chinese variants but the BSTR tubes sound very good, a bit scooped yes but also very powerful and clear with a nice grind. I think they are getting harder to find.

The EH EL34 I didn’t like much when I tried them.

 

[Racerxrated]

Siemens had never produced an EL34. If you see a "Siemens" printed EL34, then it's a rebranded RFT
RFT EL34's have been branded: Siemens, AEG, Telefunken, National, RSD, Egro, Ultron, Mesa, Ruby and Groove Tubes in the past.

In the past, various tube distributors had paid the holders of the naming rights of Siemens, AEG and Telefunken to be allowed to print their tubes with their names in order to suggest a higher quality - which would not have been necessary with RFT tubes, however, if people had known at that time what excellent quality these tubes had, which are in fact in no way inferior to a Mullard.

To your doubt:

In fact, it is not a too high PV that causes these tubes to die, but a too high SV (screen voltage).
However, this only applies to the last production batches of RFT from the end of 1987 and the years 1988 and 1989 until the time of the closure of the plant due to the opening of the GDR and reunification with the FRG.

The reason for this was that from 1987 onwards the production facilities were no longer maintained and the tubes thus had visibly higher tolerances and lower vacuum. These are the RFT EL34s that die more often from a voltage of 450 volts and higher on the screens.

Unfortunately, many tubes from these last production batches have also been delivered to Mesa and because of the rebranding it can no longer be read on the tube when it was produced.

A reliable indicator to distinguish good RFTs from critical RFTs is the shape of the "dimple" at the top of the glass envelope.
If the dimple is nice and round and even, then you have a good RFT, but if the dimple is fringed and uneven, which indicates a too cold glass weld, then you (unfortunately) have a critical RFT.

Thank you!!

This is the best explanation/info I've found anywhere on these tubes...they are my favorite 34s even over vintage Mullards. I've tried to narrow everything down from researching the net and it's still hard. Until now that is!
Appreciate it Larry!

 

[Racerxrated]

Agree 100% on the Tung Sol 34. They came stock with the 2555x I had about 7-8 years ago. Sounded great and on par with the vintage tubes I tried in it also. That's the only 34 I would buy new. I've had too many JJ failures to go back to them. One was at a gig. Ugh. Too much low end on the Ls for me; that doesn't sound very good in my Marshalls. Makes them sound 'tubby'.
The EH 34, I've been fooled 1 time on those since they resemble an RFT with the inner construction and dimple. Thankfully I only paid 30 bucks for a pair. They are absolute garbage, tone wise imo.

 

[novosibir]

This is the best explanation/info I've found anywhere on these tubes...they are my favorite 34s even over vintage Mullards. I've tried to narrow everything down from researching the net and it's still hard. Until now that is!
Appreciate it Larry!

I still have 9 quads of the Mullard EL34, mostly Xf2 and about 60 pcs. discreetly used Mullard EL34 Xf2, Xf3 & Xf4 - but I also prefer the RFT EL34
In my ears and in my gut feeling when playing loudly, only these make the legendary British Sound par excellence.