NAD: Fortin Evil Pumpkin

[FourT6and2]

Yeah but all four tubes look like they're the same lol... two are just labeled as 6CA7. That's what's confusing. I'll need to confirm when I get home from my trip and have a closer look.

 

[LP Freak]

Seems like they’d bias up different

 

[FourT6and2]

The "6CA7" might be this:
http://www.pmguitartubes.com/images/thickbox/el346ca7.jpg?height=450&width=700&modal=true

Never seen it before. As far as I knew, the only modern production tubes labeled as 6CA7 were JJ, EH, big bottle PSVANE, and big bottle Shuguang (maybe the same). But these PM-labeled tubes don't look like any of them.

And I don't think anybody has even tried those psvane or big bottle Shuguangs in a guitar amp.

 

[glpg80]

Anybody know who makes these tubes? Fortin states the EP comes loaded with two 6CA7 and two EL34. They look like Chinese tubes but I was unaware of any Chinese 6CA7... And while I'm not there in person to look at them, from the photos, they appear to be the same tube lol. One just says EL34 and the other 6CA7. Weird. The EP manual does state the amp has two 34s and two 6CA7 though. But yeah... they are the same tube.

As far as I know, the only modern production 6CA7s are JJ or Electro Harmonix. EH tubes have welded plates and circular vents. So these are not EH. And JJ are not made in China, and have a single vent in the plate. So these aren't JJ. So what are they?

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I’m running big bottle Shuguang 6CA7’s right now as we speak in Abaddon. They were really fucking expensive but I wanted to give them a try. The new factory that opened up is making the 6CA7’s.

Sound wise I personally I think they have too much low mids and aren’t as powerful as Russian EL34’s - but that’s my own opinion so far. The Russian EL34’s could take an ass whooping and never fail. I ran mine for years at 80% plate dissipation and no issues at all.

 

[mAx___]

I'm up in the Great White North, snowboarding for a while. So I'm not home to play it. But my girl just texted me this photo. I played an EP about a month ago and thought it was interesting enough to track one down. My gut feeling is it's probably very close to the Natas, Satan, Thrasher, etc.

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Your girl must be really strong to unpack that monster and lift it up there to take a picture! lol

 

[FourT6and2]

Your girl must be really strong to unpack that monster and lift it up there to take a picture! lol

She complained the entire time lol

 

[Exo-metal]

But you made her do it anyways lmao

 

[FourT6and2]

My gal took more photos of the tubes to help solve the mystery. Anybody know what these are? The outer tubes are labeled as PM Components 6CA7, Made in China. Can't seem to find out more. PM's website has a photo but it doesn't match these.

 

[glpg80]

Why do you care so much?

They’re probably cheap Chinese garbage just to get the amp functional to clear a sale. Hell even the anodes don’t match in construction between them meaning they’re certainly mismatched.

Pull them out and retube with known good tubes at least manufactured and tested to be known good tubes.

 

[FourT6and2]

Ah I think I figured it out. They appear to be the same as what Ruby Tubes calls their EL34-BHT, which I thought were made specifically for Ruby. But I guess not. Ruby says they're no longer made. But this begs the question... why is Fortin mixing two different types of modern Chinese EL34 in their amp and saying one is a 6CA7 and one is an EL34? The BHT is the same tube as the regular EL34B-STR, just built to handle higher screen voltage. Weird.

 

[motorboy1]

Why do you care so much?

They’re probably cheap Chinese garbage just to get the amp functional to clear a sale. Hell even the anodes don’t match in construction between them meaning they’re certainly mismatched.

Pull them out and retube with known good tubes at least manufactured and tested to be known good tubes.

Exactly. Who cares….

 

[FourT6and2]

This is how the amp ships from Fortin. The amp is MARKETED as having mismatched tubes. 6CA7 on the outside pair, EL34 on the inside. It doesn't take a genius EE to figure out why that's weird.

I was also curious because I've never seen a "6CA7" that looked like this. Because it's not. It's a Ruby Tubes EL34-BHT.

BTW, Ruby EL34-BHT aren't garbage. They the only modern EL34 designed to handle 500V on the screens, which is where it actually matters. Most people think it's high plate voltage that kills tubes. It's not. It's screen voltage.

 

[FourT6and2]

Exactly. Who cares….

I care. I'm inquisitive and curious and it jumps out at me as being weird.

Historically, real 6CA7 are beam tetrodes. EL34 are power pentodes. They are different designs, yet electrically compatible in most guitar amp circuits. Over time, manufacturers started using the terms interchangeably. There are very few real 6CA7. They're mostly EL34 power pentodes regardless of what's printed on the glass.

So when a manufacturer tells you their amp is specifically designed to run 6CA7 (the implication being beam tetrodes) in two of the sockets and EL34 (power pentodes) in the other two sockets, yet ships the amp with four EL34, two of which are just re-labeled as 6CA7... it's fucking weird.

Now... maybe if the circuit were actually designed to run beam tetrodes in one position and power pentodes in another, that could be interesting.

Modern Electro Harmonix 6CA7 are true beam tetrodes. JJs are kind of up in the air. Their data sheet says beam forming power pentodes, which has to be a typo or language translation error. They're probably tetrodes. The real-deal original Sylvania "fat boy" 6CA7 were also real beam tetrodes.

 

[Smash]

I could definitely be wrong, I truly have no idea why but I've always believed that he adopted the scarce/mystique business model. Nike does it too along with many others im sure. I've seen other companies say theyre done only to continue to the foreseeable future. Hype sales basically, that's my thought on it anyway.

Make something super limited and rare, add some word of mouth buzz and now everybody wants one and you get to keep the prices high.

Regardless, congrats on the amp. I had some GAS very bad when they were first announced but after the very long covid delay and incredibly large price increase after I lost all interest tbh. Would still love to try one.

Ive only had one Fortin, the Cali. It was definitely cool. Had it sounding great but.....for me it took way too much work to get it where I wanted, must have tested a dozen speakers with it and that "Jose" type clipping would have been much cooler as an option vs. Mandatory. Other amps can do it, others may disagree of course.

For the price tag of the Cali. There are much better amps, for my taste of course.

Would love to hear more clips of the EP.

I hate jose circuits and love the switch to turn them off. They sound terrible at volume as they cut volume and sound like fizzy bass

Exactly. Who cares….

I would care if I had the amp in case I had to change out the tubes. Power tubes don't last forever, and while I am sure some people just throw away their amps when the tube dies, others replace the tubes and keep rockin

 

[FourT6and2]

I would care if I had the amp in case I had to change out the tubes. Power tubes don't last forever, and while I am sure some people just throw away their amps when the tube dies, others replace the tubes and keep rockin

Absolutely.

And if you put actual 6CA7s in an amp like a Traynor, that applies negative bias to the tube's suppressor grid, you're gonna have a bad time.

 

[OldGtrGuy]

I hate jose circuits and love the switch to turn them off. They sound terrible at volume as they cut volume and sound like fizzy bass

I would care if I had the amp in case I had to change out the tubes. Power tubes don't last forever, and while I am sure some people just throw away their amps when the tube dies, others replace the tubes and keep rockin

Yeah, its cool (from my very little experience with the circuit) but not something I'd really try to hone in.

If I remember correctly and if im even getting the Jose sound right...the Cali was very prominent with that sound, like way too much for me. I have an Uber Ultra and if you play with enough switches you can also cop that fizzy clipping or whatever it is but much more sparingly compared to the Cali. However. You can completely dial it out, it is not the core of the amp.

 

[FourT6and2]

I think diode clipping has its place. And it can sound fantastic if done right. Every time I plug into my home-built Jose mod, I fall in love again.

Also... most Wizards have diode clipping and look at all the people that drool over them.

 

[glpg80]

I was also curious because I've never seen a "6CA7" that looked like this. Because it's not. It's a Ruby Tubes EL34-BHT.

Ruby is just a rebranding badge just like groove tubes, and apparently PM is just a rebranding company as well.

I wonder who's the actual manufacturer?

BTW, Ruby EL34-BHT aren't garbage. They the only modern EL34 designed to handle 500V on the screens, which is where it actually matters. Most people think it's high plate voltage that kills tubes. It's not. It's screen voltage.

Ruby EL34-BHT are probably the best EL34s you can get for high voltage and the only tubes I'd trust in 90's Bogner XTCs with 525V B+. I tried to find some many years ago and couldn't. They sound great and are very stout. Are you sure these are Ruby graded EL34-BHTs and not a chinese copy of them? They've been off the market for well over 6-8 years now.

 

[Exo-metal]

I think diode clipping has its place. And it can sound fantastic if done right. Every time I plug into my home-built Jose mod, I fall in love again.

Also... most Wizards have diode clipping and look at all the people that drool over them.

I look at all the people selling them.

 

[FourT6and2]

Ruby is just a rebranding badge just like groove tubes, and apparently PM is just a rebranding company as well.

I wonder who's the actual manufacturer?



Ruby EL34-BHT are probably the best EL34s you can get for high voltage and the only tubes I'd trust in 90's Bogner XTCs with 525V B+. I tried to find some many years ago and couldn't. They sound great and are very stout. Are you sure these are Ruby graded EL34-BHTs and not a chinese copy of them? They've been off the market for well over 6-8 years now.

Shuguang is the manufacturer.

What I've gathered is PM relabels tubes. Ruby also relabels tubes. However Ruby is the only company I've ever seen with their name on the BHT tube, which is manufactured in China by the same company who manufacturers the STR. And the tube in this amp is 100% identical to the BHT from what I can tell. The middle two are STR. The outer two are BHT, relabeled as 6CA7 for some silly reason.

EDIT:
You know what... I wonder if they did this because Jason was running BSTR and BHT combo in his original modded Marshall the Evil Pumpkin is supposed to based on. Like he ran mismatched tubes so Fortin just decided to duplicate that in the production model for shits and giggles.