rsm
Well-known member
not digital; solid state
not digital; solid state
shit butt poop party
Well-known member
Tubes have been a niche market for 50 years, no reason they will be going away....these are way more expensive than actual tubes, don't fit correctly since they bump into each other and don't sound as good.... 
Here's an actual side by side comparison. Meh. I guess they'd make sense for people that tour? Although it'd still be cheaper to just carry a bunch of spares.
Here's an actual side by side comparison. Meh. I guess they'd make sense for people that tour? Although it'd still be cheaper to just carry a bunch of spares.
rsm
Well-known member
I'm surprised if this hasn't been done before, but it's too early as long as we have real tubes, NOS and new production.
Sometime in the future, if tube supplies are running out, maybe. I think we'll see more solid state and even digital tube replacements eventually, but as long as tubes are being made, this will be a niche product
IMO
Sometime in the future, if tube supplies are running out, maybe. I think we'll see more solid state and even digital tube replacements eventually, but as long as tubes are being made, this will be a niche product
IMO
Exo-metal
Well-known member
Garbage tec for now but in the future, who knows?
rsm
Well-known member
Tubes have been a niche market for 50 years, no reason they will be going away....these are way more expensive than actual tubes, don't fit correctly since they bump into each other and don't sound as good....
Here's an actual side by side comparison. Meh. I guess they'd make sense for people that tour.
agree. maybe someday in a decade or two this will be cost effective, and the only option for people without tube horde.
If there's a future demand, these solid state or digital tubes will likely be made by a few companies.
For now, we can still get NOS and new production vacuum tubes
ners
Well-known member
If compressed YouTube videos are any indicator they seem...fine?
I still preferred the real tubes in the doom video linked above, but they weren't bad. I just don't know who the market for these are.
I still preferred the real tubes in the doom video linked above, but they weren't bad. I just don't know who the market for these are.
rsm
Well-known member
IDK either. self biasing, can be used in place of several common power tubes, etc. I have several tube amps with EL34, 6L6 (a power amp with 8, and two combos with six each), 5881, and KT77 which the Fluff vid claims these can replace.
If I had 8 of these, I could use them in all my tube amps one at a time, and never need to buy tubes again. Too early for this / no plans to do this, but in the future, who knows? that does have a certain appeal if they sound, feel and behave good.
edit: unless the NOS / new production vacuum tube situation becomes dire, it's not worth it.
Rackman
Well-known member
Just thinking about the transient behavior of the typical power tube vs. FETs, it seems like there's a serious limit on how good this can sound without quite a bit of processing around the FETs that I'm guessing they don't have.
I don't actually feel like getting away from vacuum tubes is a particularly big win. Yes, they have a few thousand hour wear life. But that's a long time. And they have the right behavior for guitar amplification.
I don't actually feel like getting away from vacuum tubes is a particularly big win. Yes, they have a few thousand hour wear life. But that's a long time. And they have the right behavior for guitar amplification.
Findthetone1
Well-known member
I'm acutally considering going in the opposite direction and building an amp using these
V
VonBonfire
Well-known member
Someone should just make a matched pair or quartet adapter that way I can ditch tubes and just plug my phone into the tube sockets and control my tube amp tone from a touchscreen. That way when I don't pay my bill my amp won't work. No toggelz, no jewel lights, no fun. Just lame shit. Seems to make sense to 2026 brain.
S̷͖͑m̵͎͂á̵̺s̸͚̈́h̴̬̑
Hack
Yeah..i think we need more subscriptions for things we have already purchased...i wonder if there is an update for my tube amp?
S̷͖͑m̵͎͂á̵̺s̸͚̈́h̴̬̑
Hack
As far as ss tubes. I am very interested in this. I am just waiting to see if they are as good as the vacuum tubes. I don't think I personally would ever need them as I have more than enough tubes for the rest of my life, but would be pretty cool if they could get them right
V
VonBonfire
Well-known member
The day is coming when people will regret giving up their analog gear. I can't wait until guitar is 100% digital so I can throw my stuff away and quit playing. Killjoys suck all the fun out of everything.
rsm
Well-known member
I recall something similar, but the timing wasn't right and the tech was insufficient..so it disappeared quickly
many top tier digital modelers, and even some cheaper ones, use component level modeling; the challenge is modeling the real-time, feedback / circular interactions between components, or several components interacting at different voltages, temps, etc. which is oimproving.
packaging component level modeling in a tube-sized enclosure, that accurately responds to dynamic signal changes in real-time is possible, but not cost effective or practical enough to compete with actual vacuum tubes. It would need to sound and feel indistinguishable from a real tube, and also need the ability to accureately switch its behavior from EL34, 6L6, etc.
Rackman
Well-known member
It's theoretically possible, but the only effective way we've found to model tube behavior is with a general purpose computer running either a neural net black box (NAM type) or a fairly sophisticated component model. So yes, I could in theory have a Bogner with 10 tiny computers, one powered off each tube socket, controlling a FET gain or output stage.
But why the fuck would I do it that way? Of all the backwards using-a-box-wrench-as-a-hammer wrong tool for the job approaches, that takes the cake.
rsm
Well-known member
it will make more sense if there are no real tubes available...but by then few will be using tube amps.
I've talked to a few younger guitarists over the years at my local GC, and two toher GC. Ask them if money was no object, what is their dream guitar rig. most won't name a tube amp as part of it.
Korg tried it with their nutube but the format isn't correct, I think onlyone Vox amp actually used one in the power section, and the amp never sold and was quickly discontinued as it was overpriced
it makes more sense to do this in flagship high end modelers for now, Fractal, Neural DSP and Helix
tricalibur
Member
^The retro valve is what yall are referencing. Ive never tried them, but it would be interesting to have an all solid state “tube amp” for comparisons.
I live close to Ben and have my own YouTube channel so I have a quad of these Ive been testing about a week now in some Soldano amps. There’s been a fairly broad representation across these video demos so far, but none of them seem to capture the main differences imo.
1. They are louder and higher headroom. They outperform most tubes in that regard
2. They are considerably darker and more mid forward, at least in my application. The mids are more low-mid focused. These are not transparent or equivalent to any existing tube brand or make. The Fluff and Jarrod videos don’t really seem to capture this tonal discrepancy, but I was told it could be amp dependent. they tend to feel responsive and punchy, like normal tubes, but the top end detail is noticeably smeared and there’s no way to really EQ around that.
3. They are dimensionally about the size of a KT88 so they won’t fit in certain amps. They don’t like tube retainers and I wouldn’t try them in an inverse combo-style chassis arrangement (ie Mesa or Fender). I was told there would be a smaller variant in the future, but this may be only to serve 6V6 and EL84 replacement. The tubes are large by engineering necessity as the heatsink must be big enough to dissipate heat. They get hot like normal tubes do.
Im yet to try them with my Power Station to see how they “breakup” under heavy power amp saturation, but so far I like the color of these things, personally, but I couldn’t see myself choosing them over regular tubes in a studio situation. These are more a utility device for frequently gigging musicians and I think that’s the ideal, target audience. But being that it was designed and built by a manufacturer known for high wattage “doom amps,” they will likely fall more-so into the hands of niche hobbyists who can afford them to support the brand and gain some reliability as well as a distinct, different tone with their amps.
Longer review video to come…
I live close to Ben and have my own YouTube channel so I have a quad of these Ive been testing about a week now in some Soldano amps. There’s been a fairly broad representation across these video demos so far, but none of them seem to capture the main differences imo.
1. They are louder and higher headroom. They outperform most tubes in that regard
2. They are considerably darker and more mid forward, at least in my application. The mids are more low-mid focused. These are not transparent or equivalent to any existing tube brand or make. The Fluff and Jarrod videos don’t really seem to capture this tonal discrepancy, but I was told it could be amp dependent. they tend to feel responsive and punchy, like normal tubes, but the top end detail is noticeably smeared and there’s no way to really EQ around that.
3. They are dimensionally about the size of a KT88 so they won’t fit in certain amps. They don’t like tube retainers and I wouldn’t try them in an inverse combo-style chassis arrangement (ie Mesa or Fender). I was told there would be a smaller variant in the future, but this may be only to serve 6V6 and EL84 replacement. The tubes are large by engineering necessity as the heatsink must be big enough to dissipate heat. They get hot like normal tubes do.
Im yet to try them with my Power Station to see how they “breakup” under heavy power amp saturation, but so far I like the color of these things, personally, but I couldn’t see myself choosing them over regular tubes in a studio situation. These are more a utility device for frequently gigging musicians and I think that’s the ideal, target audience. But being that it was designed and built by a manufacturer known for high wattage “doom amps,” they will likely fall more-so into the hands of niche hobbyists who can afford them to support the brand and gain some reliability as well as a distinct, different tone with their amps.
Longer review video to come…
Rackman
Well-known member
It seems that the guitar + hi-fi tube market is fairly lucrative given that we've actually seen an expansion of the number of manufacturers and of the range of tubes made by existing manufacturers.
All things come to an end eventually, but I'm not seeing any evidence that end is any time soon.
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