Unpopular Rig-pinions

[Speeddemon]

Here is the video of me, let's do a test. Does it make you angry? If so why? What particular? And why does it make me a f**** tool?

Fuckin' A!

Reminds me of Modern Talking and Sandra as well, but def. the Mr. Mister thing going on.
Do you know the channel New Retro Wave on Youtube? If you'd accompany your music with some 8 bit graphics, fluorescent grid, infinite racing to a skyline-type of thing, they'd hire you in sec.

I know quite a few metalheads among my friends who can appreciate this type of music and between all the grinding noise and shrieks with double bass, blastbeats, mosh stuff, we switch to this type of music quite regularly when we're hanging out, skipping through YT.
We even made it a sport to make the music jumps so eclectic, that we're pretty sure Google cannot create an algorithm on our input.
"Wait, what? First Overkill - Armorist, then Renée Fleming-Casta Diva, Pink Floyd-Time, Jan Hammer-Crockett's theme, Deicide-Once upon the Cross, then Bonnie Tyler-Total Eclipse, Van Halen-Unchained, Prokofiev-Dance of the Knights and wtf is Johnny Cash doing in that list?"

 

[SpiderWars]

"Wait, what? First Overkill - Armorist, then Renée Fleming-Casta Diva, Pink Floyd-Time, Jan Hammer-Crockett's theme, Deicide-Once upon the Cross, then Bonnie Tyler-Total Eclipse, Van Halen-Unchained, Prokofiev-Dance of the Knights and wtf is Johnny Cash doing in that list?"

Ha, somehow Johnny Cash fits perfectly! Old band used to do a Folsom Prison Blues abortion that was always fun.

 

[rstites]

Interesting! Does it require full volume in a controlled environment to get that swashy thick sound?

It requires a lot of post.. Funny thing is when recording and playing solo they sound killer. In the live band mix I find they sound nasally & boxy right up to the point where the mids disappear.

That's almost the opposite of classic Marshalls which tend to sound piercingly bright on their own, but set in the mix perfectly once you get everything else going.

I still remember the first time i played my first Marshall in the rehearsal studio and was so disappointed in how shrill the thing sounded, not to mention the lack of distortion. When everyone else showed up and we started playing with the full band, there it was, that classic Marshall crunch right on top of everyone else.

To stick with the thread premise though, that was my Marshall 2203. It sounded great dealing out the crunchy Marshall rhythm tone, but the second I tried to solo, I'd really fall down in the mix. It wasn't until I had a dedicated soundman to push the little magic solo button on the console that I could be heard over the top of everyone for solos. To go in line with that, if I wanted some delay (or similar), I needed a soundman to kick it in at the console because it mushed up out front and there was no loop in the amp. Those are really revered today, and I wish I still had mine, but the truth is I had a real love/hate relationship with the amp the entire time I had it.

 

[GJgo]

It's exactly the opposite & why I prefer the Rectos in the band mix. Marks are the ultimate amp for the bedroom player.

 

[Speeddemon]

It's exactly the opposite & why I prefer the Rectos in the band mix. Marks are the ultimate amp for the bedroom player.

I dunno man, what rstites was telling is pretty well known.
A kinda nasal, almost screechy amp with plenty mids will generally sit in a busy band-mix better than one that has its own Loudness-button contouring going on (like a Recto). I wouldn't call a Mark a better bedroom amp. If a Mark fails to stand out in a band-mix, there are other issues at play (setting a too heavy V-shape in the GEQ being one of them, or using modern G12-T75 speakers).

Of course, if you have two guitar players in a band, it helps if their tones complement each other, instead of being carbon copies. In the latter case, they'll be both fighting for the same frequencies in the sonic spectrum.

 

[GJgo]

Hence why the opinion is unpopular. I just think that the GEQ doesn't have anything to do where Mark mids sit- in the mix there's a very fine line between the mids being nasally and gone.

We're all just chasing the tone in our heads. And we all have different heads.

 

[Speeddemon]

I just think that the GEQ doesn't have anything to do where Mark mids sit

I respectfully disagree. Without the GEQ on, my experience with Marks have been that their base tone is really middy/honky. You use the GEQ's V-shape to get rid of that and fill in the lows and highs, thus greatly impacting where the mids sit. From honky to balanced usually. That said, the 750Hz slider makes all the difference between too scooped and audible in a band.

- in the mix there's a very fine line between the mids being nasally and gone.

In my experience, nasal mids -while not wanted- work well in standing out in a mix. Therefore they couldn't technically be sonically adjacent to 'gone'.
If you'd said "there's a fine line between a heavy, but scooped sound and gone", that would have made more sense in my book.

Think of that Master of Puppets or Black Album (yes, different tones, but still...) if you're chasing that tone in your bedroom/home-studio, chances are you have it heavily eq'd for this uberheavy, but severely scooped sound.
Now THAT sound will typically NOT translate well to a stage with a whole band, unless you have a soundguy who knows what he's doing.

 

[GJgo]

Hey man, it's all good. We're all speaking from our own experiences- that's why we're here!

Consider this for the "where the mids sit" comment. No matter what you do with a Mark GEQ, you're never going to get the mids to sit where they do in a Marshall. Or even a Recto. There are fundamental tonal differences in the circuit. The best a Mark GEQ can do is emphasize or de-emhasize the honk.

MOST* Marks have a base tone that's honky. I've loved them for bedroom play, but every one except the two i have now I've sold after playing in the band & I can't find a happy place between honky & missing. Also, I think part of it for me is that the Mark mids compete directly with where my vocals sit. They get drowned totally out.

*The two I have now that's not the case- a IIB KRG & IIC+ SR. I have lots of examples on my YT but here are a couple.

IIB KRG

IIC+ SR (song still in progress)

I'l always keep a Mark around for home play & recording leads, where they excel, but I'd have a hard time taking a Mark to a gig when I have a Recto on hand. It's more the sound in my head.

 

[Racerxrated]

Hey man, it's all good. We're all speaking from our own experiences- that's why we're here!

Consider this for the "where the mids sit" comment. No matter what you do with a Mark GEQ, you're never going to get the mids to sit where they do in a Marshall. Or even a Recto. There are fundamental tonal differences in the circuit. The best a Mark GEQ can do is emphasize or de-emhasize the honk.

MOST* Marks have a base tone that's honky. I've loved them for bedroom play, but every one except the two i have now I've sold after playing in the band & I can't find a happy place between honky & missing. Also, I think part of it for me is that the Mark mids compete directly with where my vocals sit. They get drowned totally out.

*The two I have now that's not the case- a IIB KRG & IIC+ SR. I have lots of examples on my YT but here are a couple.

IIB KRG

IIC+ SR (song still in progress)

I'l always keep a Mark around for home play & recording leads, where they excel, but I'd have a hard time taking a Mark to a gig when I have a Recto on hand. It's more the sound in my head.

You HAVE to throw an upper mid boost pedal in front of a Mark, IMO, to get any type of cut when you gig with one..even if you're the only GP in the band. Sure you can just throw the 750 up there but then you're honk city. My first C+ cut just fine live with a Boss OD1X in front, just the level up a bit to add that 900-1100 frequency the Boss OD series adds. The Recto, since it's a dead copy of an SLO which is VERY mid heavy doesn't need any help cutting.

 

[GJgo]

Racer, what's your favorite upper-mid boost pedal?

 

[Mailman1971]

Dude. Love it. Simply awesome

 

[Racerxrated]

Racer, what's your favorite upper-mid boost pedal?

OD1X. I’ve had the Savage Drive(noisy), Cusack Screamer(too transparent lol), Maxon(too much compression), MiJ SD1 (still have) and a few others..all are good but the OD1X doesn’t ‘narrow’ the tone, still stays big and open while adding some upper mid color. The MIJ SD1 is nice but still adds too much compression imo.

 

[PBGas]

I’ve had absolutely no issue using the JP-2C live. My other guitarist plays a lot cleaner through a Fender deluxe combo but uses a BE-OD when he uses distortion. My situation is probably different as we are pretty opposite on the tonal scale playing live.

The Mark amps have been my absolute favorite amps for a very long time. It took me a long time to realize this, of course! I am regularly playing live (well...until Covid-19 happened!) and I have always found with my amp that I would slightly increase that middle slider and up the presence and there was absolutely no issue being heard in a band situation. I had far more issues with my previous BE-50 and having to really crank it more to be heard.

Very true though, it is not going to sound like a Marshall. It is a Mesa and has it’s own thing going.

 

[ghosty999]

Ok Here's one for you. The Mark IIC+ doesn't sound good in a live situation, and the average guy will never be able to get "that" tone out of it. It's also in tonal trouble if the second guitarist has anything British voiced.

Agree! It works much better in a studio environment. Live it get's woofy very quickly especially if going for a Brit vibe and post EQ is useful.

 

[ghosty999]

Here is the video of me, let's do a test. Does it make you angry? If so why? What particular? And why does it make me a f**** tool?

Fuckin' A!

Reminds me of Modern Talking and Sandra as well, but def. the Mr. Mister thing going on.
Do you know the channel New Retro Wave on Youtube? If you'd accompany your music with some 8 bit graphics, fluorescent grid, infinite racing to a skyline-type of thing, they'd hire you in sec.

I know quite a few metalheads among my friends who can appreciate this type of music and between all the grinding noise and shrieks with double bass, blastbeats, mosh stuff, we switch to this type of music quite regularly when we're hanging out, skipping through YT.
We even made it a sport to make the music jumps so eclectic, that we're pretty sure Google cannot create an algorithm on our input.
"Wait, what? First Overkill - Armorist, then Renée Fleming-Casta Diva, Pink Floyd-Time, Jan Hammer-Crockett's theme, Deicide-Once upon the Cross, then Bonnie Tyler-Total Eclipse, Van Halen-Unchained, Prokofiev-Dance of the Knights and wtf is Johnny Cash doing in that list?"

Thanks dude, much appreciated!

New album is out:
https://open.spotify.com/album/7AMuqSAdp66VCHUk6w7Igw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FA-P7BwgID0

 

[cardinal]

Maybe somewhat unpopular: I seem much happier with amps with only two or three gain stages and an OD pedal than I am with amps with more preamp gain stages.

 

[Racerxrated]

Ok Here's one for you. The Mark IIC+ doesn't sound good in a live situation, and the average guy will never be able to get "that" tone out of it. It's also in tonal trouble if the second guitarist has anything British voiced.

Agree! It works much better in a studio environment. Live it get's woofy very quickly especially if going for a Brit vibe and post EQ is useful.

Have you played a real C+? Not a JP, Mark III with a mod, studio/quad pre, Mark V/25 etc..a read deal vintage 2C+?

Because the aforementioned are NOT a C+, no matter what anyone here says.

 

[cardinal]

Well, he did say it was an unpopular opinion.

 

[RedB4Black]

Ok Here's one for you. The Mark IIC+ doesn't sound good in a live situation, and the average guy will never be able to get "that" tone out of it. It's also in tonal trouble if the second guitarist has anything British voiced.

Agree! It works much better in a studio environment. Live it get's woofy very quickly especially if going for a Brit vibe and post EQ is useful.

Have you played a real C+? Not a JP, Mark III with a mod, studio/quad pre, Mark V/25 etc..a read deal vintage 2C+?

Because the aforementioned are NOT a C+, no matter what anyone here says.

his avatar is a picture of what I believe are his C+, C++ and JP2C

I think I recall a video where he compared the three of him - if GJgo is the same guy

 

[GJgo]

Either Racer was still asleep when he wrote that or he's talking to Ghosty..