Do you hear only pedal tone when boosting? Or, just a better version of the amp boosted?

[DanTravis62]

Did The Clock change his screen name and bait everone lol

The funny part is I am the last person on earth who should be defending the boost pedal's maidenhood and honor - I am well known on the forum for liking the type of marshall based amps that don't require a boost to stay tight - I just did a bunch of unboosted clips on the MGL thing

It's just to completely disregard 90% of every heavy tone ever recorded because they used an 808 or a GE7 in front, instead of putting a dimarzio slug or active pickups in their guitar is peak spergout

 

[7704A]

Did The Clock change his screen name and bait everone lol

Too coherent and not enough white-space, IMO and IME.

 

[Rackman]

I'm not adverse to posting things I play, but I know people well enough to know that there's no point in posting something to prove a point unless it's part of a blind test where people have to hear with their ears instead of their preconceived notions.

That said we've had amps with pre-EQ capable of cutting bass going in while still having post-gain EQ since the late 70s and they don't say Marshall on them.

 

[Exo-metal]

There's nothing preconceived about you, you're a total idiot.

 

[DanTravis62]

I'm not adverse to posting things I play, but I know people well enough to know that there's no point in posting something to prove a point unless it's part of a blind test where people have to hear with their ears instead of their preconceived notions.

That said we've had amps with pre-EQ capable of cutting bass going in while still having post-gain EQ since the late 70s and they don't say Marshall on them.

I've posted literally thousands of clips, both boosted and unboosted on RT man If it's good it's good, if it's bad it's bad, and this is one of those situations where it would certainly help your case.

If you've got some magical solution for keeping palm mutes from farting out on all these amps - recto, slo, marshalls, whatever, please by all means share with the class, because there is an entire industry that will change overnight, and it's a very large claim you're making.

 

[rsm]

And now, you're moving the goal posts. Boosting a Marshall is what you originally laughed at. Yet, most Marshalls are low-medium gain amps. 2203s, Plexis are not in any way a 'high gain' amp. Yet you suggest those amps suddenly turn into 'pedal tone only' when boosted.

Maybe that's the disconnect I have with your opinion. When I've had high gain amps, I've never boosted them for ADDITIONAL gain. Only to tighten up, or maybe add some upper mids to a low mid centric amp.
I've never heard any clip here where someone hits a distortion pedal to add gain to a Recto, SLO, or other high gain 3-5 stage amp.

If I use a drive pedal or EQ pedal as boost, I only use them with my Marshalls (Origin 50C, 1959HW, JTM 45) and Fender amps. My other Marshalls (JCM900 SL-X, DSL40CR, JVM410H, Bogner Helios Eclipse, Engl Artist Edition 100) have enough gain for me.

I also don't use any drive/boost pedals in front of my JP-2C; I run my VP4 in the loop; and my channel 2 (rhythm channel) dry without any effects.


edit: I'm not playing high gain, 7+ string guitars nor am I tuning down to subsonic levels; standard tuning or E flat / half step down. I usually run guitar direct into my Origin 50C, 1959HW and JTM 45...and I play the 1959HW and JTM 45 loud to get the power amp in the sound and pushing my greenbacks.

 

[Hiwatts-n-Gibsons]

Fwiw this shit keeps getting funnier every time it pops up. You can almost set your clock by it.

Oh noes, da tone po-lice is here.

Fuck anybody telling me how I should set up my rig for what I need it to do because they have some anal retentive bullshit going on.

 

[Exo-metal]

There it is, his new name is The Anus

 

[DanTravis62]

If I use a drive pedal or EQ pedal as boost, I only use them with my Marshalls (Origin 50C, 1959HW, JTM 45) and Fender amps. My other Marshalls (JCM900 SL-X, DSL40CR, JVM410H, Bogner Helios Eclipse, Engl Artist Edition 100) have enough gain for me.

I also don't use any drive/boost pedals in front of my JP-2C; I run my VP4 in the loop; and my channel 2 (rhythm channel) dry without any effects.

Mesa Marks are a classic case where I never boost either Granted you have to set the tone stack and GEQ in a very specific way, but yes I generally find that a boost isn't necessary with that type of amp

Fwiw this shit keeps getting funnier every time it pops up. You can almost set your clock by it.

Oh noes, da tone po-lice is here.

Fuck anybody telling me how I should set up my rig for what I need it to do because they have some anal retentive bullshit going on.

What is interesting to me is that the "anti boost pedal guys" will literally NEVER put up clips that demonstrate what they are talking about. Ever.

Chugg wouldn't do it, and rackman wont either I assume. I would love to hear this magical solution where you wont need a boost pedal for your rectifier or whatever for playing thrashy riffs with a lot of palm muting, but it's never happened. They might give you a room or phone recording (like chugg) but nothing where you can actually hear the low end. It literally never happens.

 

[rstites]

If I use a drive pedal or EQ pedal as boost, I only use them with my Marshalls (Origin 50C, 1959HW, JTM 45) and Fender amps. My other Marshalls (JCM900 SL-X, DSL40CR, JVM410H, Bogner Helios Eclipse, Engl Artist Edition 100) have enough gain for me.

I also don't use any drive/boost pedals in front of my JP-2C; I run my VP4 in the loop; and my channel 2 (rhythm channel) dry without any effects.

It really isn't about having enough gain. It's about the specific characteristics of that gain. I generally am not running that much gain on the amp, nor on the pedal when I play metal rhythms. I'm trying to get a nice balance to saturation, sustain, and yet keep it percussive enough to not get messy.

If I'm playing classic hard rock - something I've been doing more of lately, actually - I generally don't run a pedal out front. I've got the gain from the amp, and for those tones I like pure amp for most of it.

There's a lot of more pop music that uses more gain than I use on either of the above. It just ends up lower in the mix so the guitar isn't so noticeable, but the actual gain is higher. I don't play that type of music, but I can hear that with the amps.

 

[rstites]

Mesa Marks are a classic case where I never boost either Granted you have to set the tone stack and GEQ in a very specific way, but yes I generally find that a boost isn't necessary with that type of amp.

I really like the MkIII on the crunchy-rhythm (whatever it's official name is) with a pedal boosting it. Yes, I still need the GEQ afterward to dial things in with it. I do realize I'm probably weird there, but it works for me.

 

[DanTravis62]

I really like the MkIII on the crunchy-rhythm (whatever it's official name is) with a pedal boosting it. Yes, I still need the GEQ afterward to dial things in with it. I do realize I'm probably weird there, but it works for me.

I think you can get nice rhythm tones boosting the crunch and rhythm channels of the various marks. I've heard a handful of boosted tones that were really good.

I'm just saying when most people are talking about mark tones, they are talking about the lead channels - and those get plenty heavy and tight without a boost necessary. So it's a well known "standard" of the type of amp that can do metal without a boost.

 

[rsm]

It really isn't about having enough gain. It's about the specific characteristics of that gain. I generally am not running that much gain on the amp, nor on the pedal when I play metal rhythms. I'm trying to get a nice balance to saturation, sustain, and yet keep it percussive enough to not get messy.

If I'm playing classic hard rock - something I've been doing more of lately, actually - I generally don't run a pedal out front. I've got the gain from the amp, and for those tones I like pure amp for most of it.

There's a lot of more pop music that uses more gain than I use on either of the above. It just ends up lower in the mix so the guitar isn't so noticeable, but the actual gain is higher. I don't play that type of music, but I can hear that with the amps.

I like the way my Marshalls sound and feel, which usually means I play them loud; the NMV or cleaner Marshalls if I boost, it's to push the input; for the Marshalls with higher gain / preamp gain, I like the way they sound and feel without a boost. I'm not trying to get to metal levels of high gain with them...I still have a Diezel for that, and the Artist Edition and Helios Eclipse have much more gain than I normally use.

 

[DanTravis62]

I like the way my Marshalls sound and feel, which usually means I play them loud; the NMV or cleaner Marshalls if I boost, it's to push the input; for the Marshalls with higher gain / preamp gain, I like the way they sound and feel without a boost. I'm not trying to get to metal levels of high gain with them...I still have a Diezel for that, and the Artist Edition and Helios Eclipse have much more gain than I normally use.

I think that the volume is a missing ingredient for a lot of people who say that certain amps have to have a boost - especially for styles of music that require much less gain than people usually think.

Like for punk music for example, people think you need way, way more gain than anyone actually uses on the records. The sustain and compression is generally achieved with volume, not with gobs of gain. There's no universe where you need a boost with an 2203 unless you're trying to do it at low volumes if you're playing bad religion or whatever.

Conversely, if you are playing in a thrash band with a 2203, you almost certainly need a boost, because the sustain and compression isn't enough - you need to get those palm mutes sounding contained. Most bands did that with a TCpre or 808, some did it with wildly high output pickups, sepultura and dime did it with EQs, etc. But either way it's gonna have to be massaged a little bit.

There's certainly a bunch of amps that can chug without a boost pedal, but they are comparatively rare - and 9 times out of 10, whenever you run into the "diodez R bad" crowd, they can never give you an example of how they make that tone happen, because 9 times out of 10 they don't use, like, or need that tone in the first place. They don't use it, so why would anyone else?

 

[Racerxrated]

Ahh yes, this expensive high gain amp needs "tightening up". Classic battered Marshall player line, that is.

This is where you tell me about your wonderful mod. You're a perfect caricature of a Marshall player. Don't ever change

Dude, honestly, you are an absolute clown .

If your playing career doesn't pan out, try stand up comedy. And, it also seems as if your reading comprehension skills need work. That's ok; many people struggle with that as they age.

You seem 'obsessed' on proving a point that doesn't reflect on me whatsoever.
You continues to harp on boosting 'high gain' amps.

Stock Marshalls are NOT high gain amps. Therefore, yes they need a boost or a mod to get them into high gain territory. Very common, and most of the hard rock tones on albums for over 50 years have been made by boosted or modded Marshalls.
Why? Because they aren't high gain amps to begin with. Which makes them a perfect pedal platform that takes them into high gain territory.

Yet, you continue to claim that Marshalls are 'high gain' amps.

At this point, I don't believe you've ever even played a Marshall amplifier.

 

[BlueParfait]

As we all know, when we put a tone-shaping EQ-shaping thing in front of another tone-shaping thing, the one in the front takes precedence.

That's why changing the pickups has massive, life changing effect while changing they speaker or moving the mic does nothing at all.

 

[DanTravis62]

As we all know, when we put a tone-shaping EQ-shaping thing in front of another tone-shaping thing, the one in the front takes precedence.

That's why changing the pickups has massive, life changing effect while changing they speaker or moving the mic does nothing at all.

What you really need is to put an EQ in front of your EQ, and then put another EQ behind your EQ. That's how you achieve maximum tonal control!

 

[nightlight]

I really like amps with the boost built into them, like the VHT Valvulator GP3 or the VHT Sig:X or the Engl Savage 120. A lot more amp builders should be doing that, imo. The boosts are very musical and designed to work well with the amp.

On the Mark series amps, I'd say the EQ serves as the boost/cut at various frequencies, so they really don't need another one in front. Plus all the pull/push knobs and it's totally unnecessary.

On the Marshalls needing a boost, I think the JVM410H is one example of a Marshall where using a boost would be ridiculous. Much easier to dial a tone without one on that high gain monster.

 

[DanTravis62]

At this point, I don't believe you've ever even played a Marshall amplifier.

I honestly don't understand what he plays or listens to at all, if he thinks marshalls are the worst amps ever and the people who play them are suffering some kind of stockholm syndrome

Seriously. If you listen to any type of music from hard rock to heavier than hard rock, what kind of music isn't made with marshalls?

Djent? That's almost all boosted 5150s.

If he means 90s butt rock music made with rectos, like nickelback and creed, that's even funnier because there I don't think I've ever heard a rectifier on a recording without a boost of some kind.

Is there some genre of metal I'm not thinking of that only uses Mark series amps and nothing else?

I am struggling to come up with types of hard rock or heavy metal music that isn't completely inundated with boosted amp tones. Generally the non boosted tones are very specific bands with very special rigs, or amps - Iced earth with larry, Alexi Laiho's early stuff with the Lee Jackson preamp (even that was boosted with the emg afterburner lol).

There are certainly lower gain tones that aren't boosted, and there are certainly plenty of modern high gain amps that don't need one, but to act like it's this deeply offensive heresy to use diode clipping (especially while praising the fake 12AX7 starved plate MIAB pedal) is so fucking retarded that it's bordering on autistic.

Jesus man, it isn't that complicated. Imagine how much harder your life would be if you religiously, unilaterally decided some random gear technology was shit like that? What works almost always depends on the situation and the context.

 

[Anje]

Wow, when did that go wrong?

I don't see / understand why "boosting or not boosting" a high gain amp, or any amp for that matter, coud be an "issue" to somebody?
Just do what you want / sounds & feels best to you, and let the others do the same. "The end".

Fortunately, everyone is (still) free & legitimate to play his music gear / design his rig like he wants.
Imagine what a boring world & music it would be if you had "rules" you had to comply to for what / how you play...
"No stop! sorry you can't boost (mod / touch...) that amp."

Most of the reference / classic sounds put on tape that stand the test of time are made of unique gear combinations / settings / usage, where the player built his own "sound" by trial and errors, deep tweaking and/or happy accident, whatever the type of gear / amp used; that when combined with his phrasing you can recognize right away and sounds like nothing / nobody else.

Btw, to sidetrack the reasoning a little, that's to me one of the big downside of all this nice new tech we now have, starting with the emulation stuff: I see / hear more and more videos of players plugging ("straight in" or not) those high tech devices, and guess what? They all mostly have the same "sound".
It's easy and convenient I get it, but boring and gets old fast IMHO.