Does this Mark III sound right?

J

jkkkjkhk

New member
I've heard much about how the Mesa Mark III has massive amounts of gain, much more than most people would use. Well I finally got one a few months ago curing 6 years of GAS. While I absolutely love the amp it's got me wondering. There's not near the gain I expected, I can definitely live with what it has but it's nice to always have more than needed just in case there's the desire for more. Compared to say MOP or AJFA it's much lower. I know both those albums are double tracked with 6 mics each and some post EQing so I know there's more to it than just a single amp live. I'm comparing more to other clips and youtube videos.

Here's a small clip I just did to try and show what I mean. My setup is a guitar- mark III- rivera rockcrusher- egnater tourmaster 2x12- sm57- maudio mobile pre. My settings are prevolume 9, treble 7 (pulled), bass 1.75, mid 3.75, master 2 (pulled), lead drive 6 (pulled), lead master 5, presence 2, full power. Graphic EQ is in the normal V shape, 80hz just above middle line, 240hz just below middle, 750 halfway between middle and lower, 2200 just below middle, 6600 just above middle. I have the rockcrusher set to max with the output pretty low. So I know there's no speaker distortion and without really cranking the amp it's hard to get a good idea but I'm still curious. I've played with the amp at 2 (without attenuator) and it's pretty much the same gain wise. Also I recorded with the master at 4 (with the attenuator) and it was slightly mushy with same amount of gain, so I reduced it to 2 which was a bit clearer. With the gain much higher it starts to squeal so this is about the highest it'll go.

So here's the clip. Is this about how much gain a Mark III has or does it sound low? All tubes are Winged C's.
https://soundcloud.com/jkkkjkhk/mark-iii-gain-test

Thanks
 
I think the gain seems about right . I tried your settings and gain-wise it seems about the same. although my amp sounds much different, could be different tubes, condition of the components (caps, grid resistors), different speakers. Remember these amps are old. I typically use similar settings except my pre-gain is in the 7-8 range. If I want more gain, I'll kick on a ts-808 or bb preamp.
These amps can be a real PITA to get dialed in, but once you do there's nothing I have found that sounds the same.
What tubes are you running in it?
 
Bump the treble up to 10 as that boosts the gain too.

Also maybe check the preamp tubes. I would recommend Chinese throughout if you're looking for heavy tones with lots of gain.
 
What revision do you have? My red stripe definitely has more gain than that example. FWIW, I typically use R2 with an OD boost in front to get to that level of gain. Stays very tight and articulate that way.
 
And if it squeals at higher gain settings, you definitely have preamp tube problems there.. My MarkIII never squeeled, even with the gain maxed and master at noon.
 
Yeah, that clip sounds like half the gain a III should have. Bump the treble to 10 and keep the presence LOW. I think I used lead drive pretty high as well and I always had the pull knob for the master out. If the amp has reverb try unplugged it from the circuit.
 
Not a MK-III, but my MK-IIC+ does not have a ton of gain either.
What I do to get the most gain out of it is using the Volume 1 at 9, treble at 9, bass at 2, midds at 3, master 1 (pulled) to taste, lead drive at 7(pulled, of course), lead master at 4, and presence to taste. Graphic Eq pretty much like Hetfield, from left to right, 80% up, 90%up, 10% up, 90% up and 80% up. I do not come even close to attenuators. To my ears, a decent master volume sound 10X better than every attenuator I've heard.
It won't come close to other amps I have in terms of amount of gain, but it nails the MOP, AJFA and BA tones, with minor adjustments.
Want it to sound closer to the albums? That's even easier, record one track on the left and double it on the right speaker. It's night and day, and that's how they did it.
 
Lots of good stuff here, thanks guys. It's a blue stripe, all tubes are winged C's, and not really going for anyone else's tone. I'll check out some other tubes now for a quicker fix but eventually I'll send it to Mike B.
Thanks
 
Ive been using Boogies since the 80's (yup I'm old hahahha)

I had a IIC+ that had as much gain as some of the modern amps out today and when you scoop the mids out a bit, it gives off the appearance of putting out more gain.
I currently have a MKIII coliseum head that also has a ton of gain. Just about everyone who plays it freaks out given the fact that it was built in the mid 80's.

What I can tell you is that these amps did vary. Some of them are in fact down on gain and others were flame throwers.

After listening to your clip, yours sounds like it's down on gain somehow and I personally don't see why you would ever have to use an attenuator on the amp since these MV are pretty amazing.

Id say that you might want to give the amp to Mike B. but before you do that, try putting the volume on 10 with the pull bright, Treble on 10, Bass and middle low, Master on 3 with pull deep, Lead drive on 8-10(pulled for lead), Lead master to taste. Set the graphic eq in a V pattern and the amp should scream. If not....Id let Mike B. look at it.

Hope this helps!

~R~
 
When I had one up to a few years ago, I kept the volume on about 7-8, the lead gain on like 9, and the treble about 8-9 and EASILY got modern gain levels out of it. It was equal to about the amount of gain on my 5150 with the gain on 6-7, which is plenty for anything. However, the gain on Mark III's is much clearer than something like a Recto or 5150, so it kind of sounds like there is less than there really is.

If you cant get older Metallica sounds without the knobs a notch or two from 10, then check the preamp tubes...
 
Gainfreak":120u5nuv said:
Ive been using Boogies since the 80's (yup I'm old hahahha)

I had a IIC+ that had as much gain as some of the modern amps out today and when you scoop the mids out a bit, it gives off the appearance of putting out more gain.
I currently have a MKIII coliseum head that also has a ton of gain. Just about everyone who plays it freaks out given the fact that it was built in the mid 80's.

What I can tell you is that these amps did vary. Some of them are in fact down on gain and others were flame throwers.

After listening to your clip, yours sounds like it's down on gain somehow and I personally don't see why you would ever have to use an attenuator on the amp since these MV are pretty amazing.

Id say that you might want to give the amp to Mike B. but before you do that, try putting the volume on 10 with the pull bright, Treble on 10, Bass and middle low, Master on 3 with pull deep, Lead drive on 8-10(pulled for lead), Lead master to taste. Set the graphic eq in a V pattern and the amp should scream. If not....Id let Mike B. look at it.

Hope this helps!

~R~
Click to expand...

Only reason I have the attenuator hooked up is when I record I normally use it's DI out then use cab IR's, better than using the slave out cause it keeps the poweramp tone. But the tone was pretty much equal with straight amp with volume low vs with low attenuator volume with amp volume high. If it was too different I would have just used the amp without it and used the master volume. But thanks, I'll try cranking the gain and seeing what more I can get. I called Mike B a few weeks ago just for prices so a good $300 and I'll have a checkup with all new caps, R2 vol and gain mod, new reverb tank, and possibly new faceplates. :rock:
I'm very happy with the amp regardless, just wouldn't mind more gain just to have if I want it.
 
Shask":2kvuvbn4 said:
If you cant get older Metallica sounds without the knobs a notch or two from 10, then check the preamp tubes...
Click to expand...

That's what I was thinking. I'm using MetallicA's settings and compared to any of their tones my amp just seems to be lacking. I know they were using a IIC+ so my amp should have more gain right off the bat. Also I know not to compare purely from studio tones because of multi-tracking...
 
Yup I have a 100w blue strip MK III that I thought was going to have a heap of gain. It didn't. It sounds very similar to yours. It sounds good but I wouldn't call it a high gain monster. I might have to send mine in too. Keep us posted if you do and what it turns out like.
 
Bumb the treble as others have suggested. These amps are very sensitive to settings as the smallest adjustment can get you that saturation you desire. I did this clip with a Mark III red stripe. No pedal needed. I was using EMGs though. Plenty of gain and there was plently left on tap. :yes:
It is simply double tracked with one track left and one right. No post Eq or any tricks.

https://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_so ... ID=9746041
 
DSC03771.jpg


Try these settings, pull the Treble, Master 1, Lead Drive, AND Lead Master. Presence at 2-4 to taste. If it does not melt your face with gain and volume, something is WRONG. Sell the attenuator to help pay for the service at MESA. You won't need it after Mike gets done with the amp. What speakers and guitar/pickups are you using? It goes without saying, but remove any bullshit from the signal chain. Guitar>cable>amp>speaker cable>cabinet. In fact, I would attach a known good patch cord from the Send to Return of the effects loop. There are known issues at this junction. Good luck!
 
mojotone":1nwqp6vh said:
DSC03771.jpg


Try these settings, pull the Treble, Master 1, Lead Drive, AND Lead Master. Presence at 2-4 to taste. If it does not melt your face with gain and volume, something is WRONG. Sell the attenuator to help pay for the service at MESA. You won't need it after Mike gets done with the amp. What speakers and guitar/pickups are you using? It goes without saying, but remove any bullshit from the signal chain. Guitar>cable>amp>speaker cable>cabinet. In fact, I would attach a known good patch cord from the Send to Return of the effects loop. There are known issues at this junction. Good luck!
Click to expand...

I'll try this when I get home tonight. Oh but the rockcrusher stays. ;) I bought it for recording as a load box, not necessarily making my amp quiet. I'll be sending it to Mesa no matter what just to make it new again. Also haven't heard of the loop problem so I'll definitely check that out.
 
Oh but I'm using a Dean ML with a B&B L500XL but also a Jackson Rhoads with EMG 81, different sound but not much difference gain wise. Speakers are Celestion Elite 80s, Egnater's slightly modded Lead 80 clones. Somewhat bassy speakers, also closed back cab.
 
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