Final FORTIN MESHUGGAH Preorder

[VC4EverAgain]

Yes because none of those amp builders “copied” previous designs.

How original sounding is Wizard? Sounds like a Marshall with mercury transformers to me. Same with Cameron. How original is it when he stole Jose’s mods? He uses Mercury transformers too no?

Maybe it’s the Mercury transformers that makes it unique.

At any rate, you have a deep seeded jealousy for Mike Fortins success.

Lots of people borrow from other designs. Fortin’s Natas is based off of the Metalhead amp by Elan.

Wasn’t the CCV based off of the Fender Roc-Pro 1000?

LOLOLOL. 100% totally false, fake, bullshit and lies.

Dude, your credibility is gone.

Dude, take it easy. It was a joke...

 

[jasonP]

Boy some of you are wound tighter than a nats ass stretched across a rain barrel over this.

 

[CrazyNutz]

Meanwhile, scottosan copies every amp imaginable, doesn’t buy shit, and drags peoples names in the mud.

And once again you have no clue what the fuck you are talking about. He's bought all kinds of amps, Friedman's, Bogner's, etc.. He's local to me, and I've seen a few of his local classified postings. He sales his unwanted gear for way less than whats it worth, definitely not indicative of someone who aspires to turn a profit.

Like me, he's a hobbyist. It's fun, rewarding, and educational to build your own gear. Is it a money saver? haha NO!

 

[FourT6and2]

Meanwhile, scottosan copies every amp imaginable, doesn’t buy shit, and drags peoples names in the mud.

And once again you have no clue what the fuck you are talking about. He's bought all kinds of amps, Friedman's, Bogner's, etc.. He's local to me, and I've seen a few of his local classified postings. He sales his unwanted gear for way less than whats it worth, definitely not indicative of someone who aspires to turn a profit.

Like me, he's a hobbyist. It's fun, rewarding, and educational to build your own gear. Is it a money saver? haha NO!

Yup.

The educational part of it is eye opening. For example, when you see a $3K+ amp billed as being some magical new design, you're able to see through all the marketing BS.

 

[psychodave]

Crazynuts and Fourt6and2 bring up good points. Knowing how the amps work is fun and just a hobby. It’s not like this stuff is like NASA. They are tube amps which can be learned and tweaked. I personally do it for fun as well. People would shit themselves to learn how easy some of this stuff is. Heck had I known this stuff 20 years ago I’d probably have kept my 1st JCM800 and did a few simple tweaks and have been happy.

 

[FourT6and2]

Yeah man, there's a reason a JCM800 + boost pedal is still hard to beat. At the end of the day, that's all a Jose mod is. Just with the distortion/boost pedal inside the amp lol.

I've thought about building a delay pedal into the amp. But with the delay time set really short to mimic double-tracking haha.

 

[Thunkful]

Yeah man, there's a reason a JCM800 + boost pedal is still hard to beat. At the end of the day, that's all a Jose mod is. Just with the distortion/boost pedal inside the amp lol.

I've thought about building a delay pedal into the amp. But with the delay time set really short to mimic double-tracking haha.

I always thought that you lose some of the dynamics when you're using a boost. Another thing is that the amp becomes really touch sensitive and hard to control so to speak.

 

[wIsEbLooD]

Yeah, once you start looking into these circuits it is pretty amazing how incestuous the whole amp industry is.
My next project is a bogner triple giant sharp channel preamp, which almost all engl amps seem to be based on. lol

 

[Racerxrated]

The question is: if Fortin, Friedman, Randall can use a 3th party to make theirs amps, why Cameron can’t?
Don’t tell me “because he like to tweak it”...

Then don't ask the question if you don't want the answer. Because that's exactly what he does.

 

[Beyond Black]

Crazynuts and Fourt6and2 bring up good points. Knowing how the amps work is fun and just a hobby. It’s not like this stuff is like NASA. They are tube amps which can be learned and tweaked. I personally do it for fun as well. People would shit themselves to learn how easy some of this stuff is. Heck had I known this stuff 20 years ago I’d probably have kept my 1st JCM800 and did a few simple tweaks and have been happy.

My buddy's late brother, who wasn't even a guitarist, was very savvy with electronics, and was doing mods and building pedals for him as far back as the early 80's. He said that their designs were actually simpler that a transistor radio, and they were all extremely similar.

 

[FourT6and2]

Crazynuts and Fourt6and2 bring up good points. Knowing how the amps work is fun and just a hobby. It’s not like this stuff is like NASA. They are tube amps which can be learned and tweaked. I personally do it for fun as well. People would shit themselves to learn how easy some of this stuff is. Heck had I known this stuff 20 years ago I’d probably have kept my 1st JCM800 and did a few simple tweaks and have been happy.

My buddy's late brother, who wasn't even a guitarist, was very savvy with electronics, and was doing mods and building pedals for him as far back as the early 80's. He said that their designs were actually simpler that a transistor radio, and they were all extremely similar.

Whose designs, Marshall's? Yeah they're all pretty basic. Most guitar amps are.

 

[Beyond Black]

So Fortin didn't add any of his own ideas to the circuit? ... Friedman, Cameron, and many others mods and production amps aren't just derivatives of the Jose mod? Interesting...

Can you read a schematic? If so, I will send it to you and you can judge for yourself.

It's not exactly my field of expertise, but thanks for the offer. I believe what you are saying about the similarities between this and a Jose mod, but I know what my ears are hearing in that clip. That amp sounds vicious, brutal, and definitely has that Fortin tone. It's got to be more than a mere clone of a Jose mod. Are you saying Fortin didn't do any additional tweaking to get his signature sound? And if so, what's the crime in that? Many, many high gain amp builders have done the exact same thing. Fortin collaborated with Fredrick & Marten in the building of this amp, and gave them what they wanted, and apparently a tweaked Jose mod was all that was required. Did Fortin ever claim that it was anything else? Not to my knowledge. He put up a few limited runs, and they sold out immediately. Good for him. If you don't want to shell out $3333.33 for a tweaked Jose mod, guess what, there's no gun to your head. People around here act like he grave robbed Jose Arredondo!

 

[Beyond Black]

Crazynuts and Fourt6and2 bring up good points. Knowing how the amps work is fun and just a hobby. It’s not like this stuff is like NASA. They are tube amps which can be learned and tweaked. I personally do it for fun as well. People would shit themselves to learn how easy some of this stuff is. Heck had I known this stuff 20 years ago I’d probably have kept my 1st JCM800 and did a few simple tweaks and have been happy.

My buddy's late brother, who wasn't even a guitarist, was very savvy with electronics, and was doing mods and building pedals for him as far back as the early 80's. He said that their designs were actually simpler that a transistor radio, and they were all extremely similar.

Whose designs, Marshall's? Yeah they're all pretty basic. Most guitar amps are.

Just guitar amps in general.

 

[jasonP]

It really is a lot of fun to be able to tweak an amp how you would like it to sound or if there something about it you don't like. A great example is one of my amps had slightly to much lower mid focus that I couldn't dial out no matter what I did. I did a little research with the Duncan tone stack cal on where I wanted to focus of the mid freq to be and then made the change. I do like FourT6and2 does and install a switch and go between the "mod" and the stock part value to verify the change before soldering the part in for good. A lot of times an amp just needs a couple changes for it to go from great, to awesome.
Running a boost in front of a high gain amp is a great way to get better dynamics, tighter feel and bottom end and more aggressive sound. By backing the gain down on the amp and boosting the front end you don't compress the tone as much. I learned this from a guitar friend that has tracked in the studio a bit.

 

[VC4EverAgain]

Meanwhile, scottosan copies every amp imaginable, doesn’t buy shit, and drags peoples names in the mud.

And once again you have no clue what the fuck you are talking about. He's bought all kinds of amps, Friedman's, Bogner's, etc.. He's local to me, and I've seen a few of his local classified postings. He sales his unwanted gear for way less than whats it worth, definitely not indicative of someone who aspires to turn a profit.

Like me, he's a hobbyist. It's fun, rewarding, and educational to build your own gear. Is it a money saver? haha NO!

Cool story bro.

 

[Beyond Black]

I personally wouldn't give a fucking fuck if Mike built it or not. It's still entirely his design, Metropolis is one of the best in the business, I'd be saving $1667 dollars because it wasn't, and I wouldn't have to wait a year!... First world guitar player problems....

This is not true. This “design” is a JCM800 with a Jose mod that’s been around for more than 30 years.

You're wasting your breath, fanboys gonna fanboy regardless of reality. I will say I almost pulled the trigger on one of these in the last run, but after seeing gut shots and all it is I am REALLY glad I saved my money.

Fanboy? No fanboy here. I was speaking logic. Tell me exactly how anything I said above is "fanboy." And I already corrected myself for saying "entirely."
So you almost pulled the trigger on one of these, huh? So I'm assuming that you heard the clip, liked it enough to almost shell out $3333.33, but changed your mind because there's not enough going on under the hood?...Ok... Do you buy an amp to play or to gaze at gutshots?

 

[jasonP]

So Fortin didn't add any of his own ideas to the circuit? ... Friedman, Cameron, and many others mods and production amps aren't just derivatives of the Jose mod? Interesting...

Can you read a schematic? If so, I will send it to you and you can judge for yourself.

It's not exactly my field of expertise, but thanks for the offer. I believe what you are saying about the similarities between this and a Jose mod, but I know what my ears are hearing in that clip. That amp sounds vicious, brutal, and definitely has that Fortin tone. It's got to be more than a mere clone of a Jose mod. Are you saying Fortin didn't do any additional tweaking to get his signature sound? And if so, what's the crime in that? Many, many high gain amp builders have done the exact same thing. Fortin collaborated with Fredrick & Marten in the building of this amp, and gave them what they wanted, and apparently a tweaked Jose mod was all that was required. Did Fortin ever claim that it was anything else? Not to my knowledge. He put up a few limited runs, and they sold out immediately. Good for him. If you don't want to shell out $3333.33 for a tweaked Jose mod, guess what, there's no gun to your head. People around here act like he grave robbed Jose Arredondo!

I'm sorry to say that it doesn't have anything more going on from what I've seen. It doesn't look "tweaked" or anything like that. I wish I could tell you different, honestly.

 

[scottosan]

Meanwhile, scottosan copies every amp imaginable, doesn’t buy shit, and drags peoples names in the mud.

And once again you have no clue what the fuck you are talking about. He's bought all kinds of amps, Friedman's, Bogner's, etc.. He's local to me, and I've seen a few of his local classified postings. He sales his unwanted gear for way less than whats it worth, definitely not indicative of someone who aspires to turn a profit.

Like me, he's a hobbyist. It's fun, rewarding, and educational to build your own gear. Is it a money saver? haha NO!

Yup.

The educational part of it is eye opening. For example, when you see a $3K+ amp billed as being some magical new design, you're able to see through all the marketing BS.

It is magical! It has illusive 4th gain stage. Inside joke

 

[FourT6and2]

I believe what you are saying about the similarities between this and a Jose mod, but I know what my ears are hearing in that clip. That amp sounds vicious, brutal, and definitely has that Fortin tone.

The clips are misleading.
Historically, people with these amps play '80s cock rock and EVH, not modern metal. Plug an 8 string with a 33 or Grind boost pedal into a typical Jose mod and you'll get similar results.

It's got to be more than a mere clone of a Jose mod.

Nope. It is literally a Jose mod. The exact Jose mod is commonly referred to as the Cameron Atomica. The Meshuggah just does not have the depth control.

Are you saying Fortin didn't do any additional tweaking to get his signature sound?

Nope. The "tweaking" is the marketing. And making sure all your customers are running 33 or Grind boost pedals in all the clips.

And if so, what's the crime in that?

There's no crime. Except I felt duped. I paid $3,300+ for an amp advertised as being a new, unique Fortin design with 4 gain stages. That is what the product description on Fortin's website said. It has now been changed. Edited. Removed. The amp does not have 4 gain stages. It is not a new, unique Fortin design. Simple typo? Who knows. It's gone now.

Did Fortin ever claim that it was anything else?

Yes. First, the product page and all the social media posts said it has 4 gain stages and was a super mega awesome metal monster unique Fortin design. Maybe it was a typo. Maybe the marketing dude didn't know what he was writing. It's now been changed, btw. But this is after the fact. I bought my amp like 6-8 months ago under the impression this was something new from Fortin. If I had known it was a JCM800 with Jose mod, I wouldn't have bought it.

Second, before I placed my order I emailed Fortin to ask him if this was similar to his other Cali and Jose mods. He said no. Totally different. Not true.

Does it sound good? Hell yes it does. It sounded good 30 years ago too.

If you don't want to shell out $3333.33 for a tweaked Jose mod, guess what, there's no gun to your head.

Like I said, if I had known it was a JCM800 Jose mod... the same damn circuit I've already built 4 times on my own in 2011, 2012, and two times last year, I wouldn't have bought one. Do they sound good? Yes (well not the one I bought since it was malfunctioning). But this really all stems from the marketing dude going off his leash to be honest.

 

[mctallica1]

If you get past all the bullshit in this thread, there is a lot of great information here.

I’ve been playing for a LOOOONG time and have gone through a metric shit ton of high end high gain amps, but have virtually zero technical knowledge. Given all the experience I have, I do know what I like, but couldn’t tell you what resistors, caps, etc get me there.

Like I said.... lots of bullshit, but also some excellent info

T