So is the Atomica really THE Atomica Curt played?

[OBGYNkanobi]

Mike,

Thanks again; I appreciate that.

Well, here's how all this silliness began. There was a debate over at the Metro forum discussing the "staged VH2 pic" showing the back of Ed's amp, and it seemed pretty clear, at least to most of us, that it has a 2" core OT. Chris Merren then posted a pic of an OT he and Ken Fisher took out of a 67 Super Bass that had a 2" core and a 2.2k primary impedance. It had completely different laminations than the 1202 series of Drakes. It has 4 screws holding the end bells on, one on each corner as opposed to the typical two down the center that most Drakes had.

coincidentally, it looks a lot like this one.

Now Chris never suggested that these were the same. He just pointed out the interesting coincidence. Chris' iron is phenomenal, but he wasn't interested in making this OT, as it's kind of a specialty thing that most people probably wouldn't want...at least that's what I gathered.

I've tried both the C1998 Dagnall clone...I've had a Marstran and one of Chris' and they're both great. I've tried the 1202-132 Drake clone as well,and with everything in the amp set to 68 Plexi specs, with 6ca7's biased hot and dropped to 90v, i think it sounds closer. that being said the problem I could never get around was making the 100k/4 ohm NFB setup sound right, as well as the V2 fat cap.

I asked merc if they knew what it was and they said they did and that they had it on file and could make it as a custom wind. Here's what it sounds like in a 68 Plexi...Courtesy of Strat78 over at the Metro forum. Still needs a little tweaking, but listen to the vocal overtone of the midrange, then go back and compare it to Ed's tone and then a clip with a C1998 and you will hear the difference like night and day. It's got a vocal 3-D like quality that is so elusive in Ed's tone. I'm at least convinced Ed' OT was somewhere in the 2.2k-2.5k range.
https://www.soundclick.com/player/single ... i&newref=1
According to guys who have seen the man's amp and know what the specs are, Ed's amp had a 100k/4 ohm NFB setup and a 330uf V2 fat cap. IMHO, this OT works very well and sounds a bit better to me than the C1998 or Drake 1202-132 when you use the amp the way Ed did.


This is using the specs Dave Friedman provided with the O100JM-VZ OT. I could be way off here, but I think it's pretty close to what is/was in Ed's main Plexi.

I had heard that the Golden amp had one of Arson's OT's and I was just wondering if Atomica did as well...and if they were even the same OT?

 

[chumbucket]

Can someone clarify for me exactly what the 'golden" amp is please?

 

[LP Freak]

Here's a little info on Ed's amp.
http://www.pleximods.com/evhspec.html

 

[chumbucket]

Here's a little info on Ed's amp.
http://www.pleximods.com/evhspec.html

Ed's magic Marshall is what's being referred to as the golden amp?

 

[Digital Jams]

Here's a little info on Ed's amp.
http://www.pleximods.com/evhspec.html

That info is old, new shit has been surfaced

 

[Digital Jams]

Here's a little info on Ed's amp.
http://www.pleximods.com/evhspec.html

Ed's magic Marshall is what's being referred to as the golden amp?

Depends, some say VH1 was Ed's magic amp.

The golden amp was an amp Jose and Ed were working on and went on tour, strange enough no pics of it being used can be found.

 

[OBGYNkanobi]

Here's a little info on Ed's amp.
http://www.pleximods.com/evhspec.html

Ed's magic Marshall is what's being referred to as the golden amp?

No, what gets reffered to as Ed's "magic amp" is a 68 Plexi, #12301. It's really nothing more than a good 68 12000 series marshall with a few tweaks. There's no real magic there other than the way Ed ran it to get the amount of power tube distortion he got, his effects chain and of course Ed's hands.

nothing really special going on here, other than a few oddball part substitutions. Dave Friedman has since restored it to stock specs.

The golden amp was one of a few prototypes he was working on with Jose in the 80's. It's rumored that it was what eventually developed into the Peavey VTM 120. I honestly have no idea, but I doubt it. "Atomica" is probably a whole different ball of wax. I have no idea whether that amp was cascaded or internally jumpered or what, but from the way that Curt described it, it seems like it had just a little more gain than a stock Plexi. If that is the case, then I'm wondering how much it had in common with the golden amp? What I'm hearing from these Atomica clips is a lot of gain.

 

[King Guitar]

Guys our Atomica is Mark Camerons best version of the Low Gain and High Gain Jose mods he does with a killer FX loop.

 

[Stramm8]

I love EVH but all of this obsessive-compulsive conspiricy theory Bulls$%t belongs on the Metroforum with all the other tin-foil hat wearing dudes. It's just isn't healthy

FWIW, that metro=friedman amp nails the tone. Case closed.

 

[OBGYNkanobi]

I was answering a question in reference to Ed's "magical amp"; essentially saying that there is nothing "Magical" about it. It was just a stock Plexi and was an entirely different amp than what is being discussed...kind of the opposite of any "conspiracy theory", so your abrasive response really isn't warranted.

The only questions I had was how similar was the "Atomica" amp to the "Golden" amp, since we know what the specs of that amp are, and what kind of OT did they have in them, as they have a pretty big impact on tone? I'm sure the new amp is awesome, but I was just curious as to what kind of mod the original Atomica had? I know that this might seem odd to guys that order $3000 amps based on internet clips, but for us "tin foil hat wearing dudes" that actually build and work on our own amps, sometimes trying to put the pieces together matters as much it does to the guys who build these amps you buy. Anyways, enough of that, I'm obviously in the wrong place to exchang ideas in regards to amp building...apologies all around.

BTW, that Cameron HG Jose amp sounds sick Brad!

 

[Stramm8]

My comment was somewhat tongue-in-cheek so please don't be offended. To me all of the speculation and theories; it's just splitting hairs at this point. If you want to get that tone there are many options that will get you close. Hell, I can get a decent 'brown sound" out of the 5150. And in the true spirit of the man himself that would be "close enough". Point being, I always had the impression that Ed didn't really put that much thought into it. 90% of was probably luck

 

[OBGYNkanobi]

No worries; I'm not offended. Well, it's like a recipie; ingredients matter, and when you're building an amp, splitting hairs matters, but that's another thing entirely.
With respect to Ed, I hear ya; it was just luck and skill.

 

[Philo Beddoe]

I thought he uses a 5153? It seems to work on channel 2 IMO.

 

[Chubtone]

There's like 35 threads on the front page. If these guys want to do a little obsessive Van Halen tone recipe stuff in one thread, once a year on Rig Talk, I'm all for it.

Keep it up OBGYN and others. If I get tired of it, I won't click on the thread.

 

[Digital Jams]

OBG, the whole reason I started this thread was because for 10+ years I have heard of this "Atomica" amp that had Curt to this day floored and offered $3000 for it. It is sort of legend amoung many of us that have been hanging together. When I saw High Gain Atomica I was rather disappointed because IMO the High Gain Jose is nothing more than the schmatic that Steve posted plus or minus some componets. Many guys already have played, owned, and flipped this new "Atomica".

Now I have played an amp that matches the description gain level wise and probably tone wise of Atomica, I KNOW Curt would be floored with this amp knowing him for years. THAT is the amp that I know many here want and perhaps get in the future if people keep up making these threads. There was no dialing in tones, you ran your finger across all the pots till they were dimed and go.

The Atomica aint no Marshaboogie

 

[OBGYNkanobi]

The clips I've heard of the new amps sounds great, but those are my thoughts exactly, and that's why I was just doing a little comparitive analysis and trying to fit the puzzle pieces together based on what we do know. I thought the Golden Amp was a good place to start. The guy mentioned one of Arson's OT's in the ebay auction, and I thought that was relevent too. Anyways, I'm done rambling, but I think I know what my next project is going to be; my Mojave is going under the knife again.

 

[Anonymous]

The clips I've heard of the new amps sounds great, but those are my thoughts exactly, and that's why I was just doing a little comparitive analysis and trying to fit the puzzle pieces together based on what we do know. I thought the Golden Amp was a good place to start. The guy mentioned one of Arson's OT's in the ebay auction, and I thought that was relevent too. Anyways, I'm done rambling, but I think I know what my next project is going to be; my Mojave is going under the knife again.

I wish I would have kept my Mojave and left it stock. I'd rather experiment with a cheaper Marshall-y platform. One of the old 100W '68 spec metro kits, or a Ceriatone, or even an old JMP would be a great modding platform... If I wasn't building my own amp now, that is exact;y what I'd do...

Steve

 

[OBGYNkanobi]

After butchering that thing a few times, I've realized that it really doesn't take that much to make that amp sound pretty great. It's a 1959 layout with internally jumpered channels and polypro film and silver mica caps. It's really not all that far off the specs for the golden amp if you think about it, minus the parallel triodes at V1. If the Atomica was anything close to the golden amp, you could get a Peacemaker really close with minimal tweaking; it's almost half way there anyways.
Think about it though; even just minimal changes would make that amp soooo much more liveable. Drop the V1a cathode cap to 25uf, the V2b cathode resistor down to 820ohm-2k...adjust to taste (IMHO the lead channel is a tad dark too), lower the filtering on the screens, raise the P.I. filtering, .022uf output couplers, and maybe some warmer caps like Sozos in the tonestack...done, and I guarantee you that amp would just kill it. I'm going to call it "Mojavica".


I think I'll reserve my next 69 Plexi project for something high gain...maybe a Langer mod or SIR #36?

 

[Chubtone]

I wish I would have kept my Mojave and left it stock. I'd rather experiment with a cheaper Marshall-y platform. One of the old 100W '68 spec metro kits, or a Ceriatone, or even an old JMP would be a great modding platform... If I wasn't building my own amp now, that is exact;y what I'd do...

Steve

My Mojave is probably my least valuable amp. $3100 new and they sell for about $1200 used. My '70 and '72 Marshalls are worth more.

 

[OBGYNkanobi]

I just sold Eric's old Bray modded (bastardized quite a bit by me) Mojave to a member here for far, far less than what they went for new. He got a slamming deal and that was a killer sounding amp when it was finished. Most guys that want to buy old Marshalls want it stock, unless it's a big name mod shop. I think the Mojave is a great platform to mod, as long as you don't try and turn it into something it's not, but for what we're talking about, the changes would be minimal and result in a more musical amp that's fun to play as opposed to something you plug into once a month.