Reissue Triple Recto Clips?

[Exo-metal]

Let's hear yours

Sounded killer to me. Juicy and full of life and that was on a low volume laptop

I returned mine bc it wasn't worth keeping. His clip sounds weak bc of the amp. Go back to post#51 from the link he posted and compare.

Tell me this, would anyone be compelled to run out out and buy this amp based off this clip?

 

[Sixstringflannel]

Both clips sounded great to me but there are variables behind each recording and mods on the amp post #51. Both clips (Holy-Divers and #51) though led me to deciding to go with the triple and I don’t even play that style. Horses for courses or whatever the hell the saying is. I love my triple RI and the Dual RI and will happily embrace my shit eating grin playing both living in my naive butt rock world.

 

[TheGreatGreen]

@Exo-metal @SPRTAN

Two clips:
90's Triple RI - Orange Modern channel
90's Dual RI - Orange Modern channel

Both amps on Silicone Diodes, Bold power. No pedal boost, but I do have an EQ in my guitar I used to turn up some treble by like 5-6 db and turn down some lows by maybe 3-4 db or so. I set the controls on the amp mostly the same, meaning that due to manufacturing pot variance I tweaked a few knobs to try and get the amps close to each other, but each knob is basically within a single "o'clock" setting of the corresponding control on the other amp. Signal chain is identical with both amps. Amp swapping was done with a KHE amp switcher. Guitar recorded with a looper, and both amps were reamped using the recorded loop.

My goal wasn't to make either amp sound particularly great, but more to see how close I could get them to each other with a more or less starting baseline kinda tone with BMT all somewhere between 10:00-2:00, with some gain but not a crazy amount dialed in. The idea is that if you can get them sounding close enough that way, then you can be pretty confident that whatever you can do with one, you can probably do with the other.





The biggest difference I found with the way I dialed these amps is that the Triple had more upper Presence even though the Triple's Presence knob was dialed lower than the Dual's. Here's what I mean. I applied a high shelf cut to the Triple Reissue in post, then played the two clips together. Phase cancelling one of the amps after applying this EQ to the Triple almost completely negated them.

That's how close they are when not cranked.

Again, the poweramps were not clipping so poweramp distortion, or one amp's ability to stay tighter at higher levels, wasn't really a factor here. I'm sure as you turn them up, the differences would become more pronounced in that the Triple would hold together and stay tighter longer.

Overall, I think these amps are very, very close. I could have probably dialed them even closer if I turned the Presence down more on the Triple. Neither one of these amps is more "flat and lifeless" than the other. They're both great amps.

 

[Exo-metal]

I appreciate your effort here. I could benefit from a live in the room comparison with the amps boosted using similar settings and speaker cabs. I see how much work this must be so I want to thank you for it.

 

[TheGreatGreen]

I appreciate your effort here. I could benefit from a live in the room comparison with the amps boosted using similar settings and speaker cabs. I see how much work this must be so I want to thank you for it.

Sure thing!

It's tough to compare pretty much anything in a signal chain unless you really take the time to isolate all the variables. In the room with a cab, something as seemingly insignificant as moving your head a few inches in any direction can change the phase interactions of all the sounds in the room hitting your ears and how you hear the highs vs the mids vs lows, etc. If that can change your perception as much as it does, everything else is only going to mess with what you hear even more. Different room? Different cab? Different guitar? Standing in a different spot? It might sound great (or terrible) but the comparison is no longer valid.

Because of this stuff, I basically never trust any amp-in-the-room situation for comparisons, unless whatever you're comparing is right there and you can swap back and fourth instantly without having to move around.

 

[FourT6and2]

Sure thing!

It's tough to compare pretty much anything in a signal chain unless you really take the time to isolate all the variables. In the room with a cab, something as seemingly insignificant as moving your head a few inches in any direction can change the phase interactions of all the sounds in the room hitting your ears and how you hear the highs vs the mids vs lows, etc. If that can change your perception as much as it does, everything else is only going to mess with what you hear even more. Different room? Different cab? Different guitar? Standing in a different spot? It might sound great (or terrible) but the comparison is no longer valid.

Because of this stuff, I basically never trust any amp-in-the-room situation for comparisons, unless whatever you're comparing is right there and you can swap back and fourth instantly without having to move around.

For me, it's the opposite. I hate mic'd clips unless it's for actually recording a polished, mixed song. All you're recording with a close mic is the tiny section of speaker cone. Just sounds like static to me. No body. Missing half the meat the speaker is putting out and missing the cab resonance and yes... room resonance too. But I can get a better idea of an amp's character from a room clip than close mic. 99% of all close mic clips sound about the same to me: a wall of white noise and bees in a can.

I'd rather hear something like this:

 

[SPRTAN]

@Exo-metal @SPRTAN

Two clips:
90's Triple RI - Orange Modern channel
90's Dual RI - Orange Modern channel

Both amps on Silicone Diodes, Bold power. No pedal boost, but I do have an EQ in my guitar I used to turn up some treble by like 5-6 db and turn down some lows by maybe 3-4 db or so. I set the controls on the amp mostly the same, meaning that due to manufacturing pot variance I tweaked a few knobs to try and get the amps close to each other, but each knob is basically within a single "o'clock" setting of the corresponding control on the other amp. Signal chain is identical with both amps. Amp swapping was done with a KHE amp switcher. Guitar recorded with a looper, and both amps were reamped using the recorded loop.

My goal wasn't to make either amp sound particularly great, but more to see how close I could get them to each other with a more or less starting baseline kinda tone with BMT all somewhere between 10:00-2:00, with some gain but not a crazy amount dialed in. The idea is that if you can get them sounding close enough that way, then you can be pretty confident that whatever you can do with one, you can probably do with the other.





The biggest difference I found with the way I dialed these amps is that the Triple had more upper Presence even though the Triple's Presence knob was dialed lower than the Dual's. Here's what I mean. I applied a high shelf cut to the Triple Reissue in post, then played the two clips together. Phase cancelling one of the amps after applying this EQ to the Triple almost completely negated them.

That's how close they are when not cranked.

Again, the poweramps were not clipping so poweramp distortion, or one amp's ability to stay tighter at higher levels, wasn't really a factor here. I'm sure as you turn them up, the differences would become more pronounced in that the Triple would hold together and stay tighter longer.

Overall, I think these amps are very, very close. I could have probably dialed them even closer if I turned the Presence down more on the Triple. Neither one of these amps is more "flat and lifeless" than the other. They're both great amps.

Thank you for the clips and effort playing. Really!
But you can’t say “I did boost treble by 6db (that’s almost to much for a EQ)” plus turn the Bass down by almost the same amount (wich results in even more treble perception).
And then say: “It doesn’t sound lifeless”.

You’ve reached the point where a Multiwatt could’ve been made more sense. Because that’s a sound the old ones and the Reissue are not designed for. They are dark, warm and thick by design. And that’s fine.
But for noted reasons, what you’re after de facto the wrong Tool.

I was on the exact same road. Dimed presence. Dimed Treble. And did Throw a EQ with significant Treble boost and Bass/low mid cut in.

This showed me: It’s the wrong tool for the job. Went back to the Multiwatt. Have the same results with everything at around 11-3 o clock.

Don’t get me wrong. They are fine for what they are and very closed to the original.
But if you need to apply such a massive bandaid to make it work for You!. Then it might be not the right choice, no matter how prestigious they are and cool they look.

 

[c+addict]

My Triple reissue is darker than my Dual Rev G. I tried Mesa square getters again a couple of days ago but I like it better with the JJ's. It sounds thinner and less saturated with the square getters. My Dual is more organic than the reissue but the reissue is really good with a Les Paul and a Dirty Tree. I’ve been running it in stereo with a wide c+ DRG.

 

[TheGreatGreen]

Thank you for the clips and effort playing. Really!
But you can’t say “I did boost treble by 6db (that’s almost to much for a EQ)” plus turn the Bass down by almost the same amount (wich results in even more treble perception).
And then say: “It doesn’t sound lifeless”.

You’ve reached the point where a Multiwatt could’ve been made more sense. Because that’s a sound the old ones and the Reissue are not designed for. They are dark, warm and thick by design. And that’s fine.
But for noted reasons, what you’re after de facto the wrong Tool.

I was on the exact same road. Dimed presence. Dimed Treble. And did Throw a EQ with significant Treble boost and Bass/low mid cut in.

This showed me: It’s the wrong tool for the job. Went back to the Multiwatt. Have the same results with everything at around 11-3 o clock.

Don’t get me wrong. They are fine for what they are and very closed to the original.
But if you need to apply such a massive bandaid to make it work for You!. Then it might be not the right choice, no matter how prestigious they are and cool they look.

Welcome! I like doing comparisons like that.

However, the argument wasn’t that the Recto RI sounds this way or that way, I made the clips to show that the Dual RI and Triple RI are extremely similar sounding amps, and that if you can do something with one, you can do it with the other.

I don’t view the guitar EQ thing as significant, at least for the purposes of these clips. I just used a sound and feel I liked in the moment. Besides, is there any real difference in slightly boosting or cutting a few things vs just changing pickups? If you can get a similar change by swapping to a different set of pickups, which I think you could, then I don’t think it's relevant here, because again I wasn’t trying to show that the amps can or can’t do this or that sound, just that they’re very close.

FWIW though, I also used to have a DR Multi-Watt, but sold it after I picked up the 90’s Dual. They’re both great amps, they’re both Rectos, they both do the Recto thing. However the Multi-Watt was maybe slightly more scooped with slightly more emphasized Presence, and it was slightly looser in the lows, while the 90’s Recto was slightly more balanced overall and slightly tighter. But again, they’re both Rectos and will both get great Recto sounds. I could easily see any given player’s preference for one or the other being a coin toss, I just happened to like the RI like 5% more.

 

[thegame]

@Exo-metal @SPRTAN

Two clips:
90's Triple RI - Orange Modern channel
90's Dual RI - Orange Modern channel

Both amps on Silicone Diodes, Bold power. No pedal boost, but I do have an EQ in my guitar I used to turn up some treble by like 5-6 db and turn down some lows by maybe 3-4 db or so. I set the controls on the amp mostly the same, meaning that due to manufacturing pot variance I tweaked a few knobs to try and get the amps close to each other, but each knob is basically within a single "o'clock" setting of the corresponding control on the other amp. Signal chain is identical with both amps. Amp swapping was done with a KHE amp switcher. Guitar recorded with a looper, and both amps were reamped using the recorded loop.

My goal wasn't to make either amp sound particularly great, but more to see how close I could get them to each other with a more or less starting baseline kinda tone with BMT all somewhere between 10:00-2:00, with some gain but not a crazy amount dialed in. The idea is that if you can get them sounding close enough that way, then you can be pretty confident that whatever you can do with one, you can probably do with the other.





The biggest difference I found with the way I dialed these amps is that the Triple had more upper Presence even though the Triple's Presence knob was dialed lower than the Dual's. Here's what I mean. I applied a high shelf cut to the Triple Reissue in post, then played the two clips together. Phase cancelling one of the amps after applying this EQ to the Triple almost completely negated them.

That's how close they are when not cranked.

Again, the poweramps were not clipping so poweramp distortion, or one amp's ability to stay tighter at higher levels, wasn't really a factor here. I'm sure as you turn them up, the differences would become more pronounced in that the Triple would hold together and stay tighter longer.

Overall, I think these amps are very, very close. I could have probably dialed them even closer if I turned the Presence down more on the Triple. Neither one of these amps is more "flat and lifeless" than the other. They're both great amps.

Awesome job and yes they’re similar enough, at least recorded. But you may have proven @Exo-metal correct in that the differences here perfectly line up with his assessment. The Dual sounds livelier, juicier and just plain better in these examples.

 

[TheGreatGreen]

Awesome job and yes they’re similar enough, at least recorded. But you may have proven @Exo-metal correct in that the differences here perfectly line up with his assessment. The Dual sounds livelier, juicier and just plain better in these examples.

Did you check out the phase cancelled clip?

The phase cancelled clip brings the signal from around 0 db down to about -35 db. Phase cancelling two signals down to that level means they're extremely close.

But wait, there's more! That phase cancellation is "only" -35 db because of the high Treble and Presence. If you apply a brick wall low pass filter to that phase cancelled clip at about 2.8kHz, you'll see it go down to about -48 db. That's about as identical as two not-literally-identical signals can be. That means the only real difference between the clips is happening above 2.8kHz, and even then, they're so close that they phase cancel down to about -35db, which you're basically never going to hear.

I've enabled downloads on the Dual and Triple tracks. Feel free to put them in your DAW and play around with them. If you wide pan them, they sound mono. If you phase cancel them, they go extremely quiet. Feel free to try all the EQ shenanigans you can think of.

What I'm saying is that I think pretty much any differences you can hear between the two clips comes down to fairly simple EQ. I don't think the amps have significantly different harmonic, compression, or clipping profiles or anything like that, at least at the non-poweramp-clipping levels I was recording.

 

[Holy-diver]

Idk, I feel like the commentary on the clips here is great however knowing what amp it is is giving you guys confirmation bias. They all sound virtually identical and I think it’s obvious that the circuit is the exact same minus power sections. My clip comparison was even between a late 90s rev g and you can barely even tell it’s different at all

 

[FourT6and2]

Idk, I feel like the commentary on the clips here is great however knowing what amp it is is giving you guys confirmation bias. They all sound virtually identical and I think it’s obvious that the circuit is the exact same minus power sections. My clip comparison was even between a late 90s rev g and you can barely even tell it’s different at all

I'm not going off these clips. I'm going by playing both amps next to each other. Something about the Triple was a no-go for me. Maybe the amp had a bad tube or malfunction or something. But it didn't sound the same as the Dual. Just seemed choked and lifeless. This goes for both the Reissue Triple and a Rev G Triple compared to numerous Rev G Duals, Ref F Dual, and Reissue Dual.

 

[Holy-diver]

I'm not going off these clips. I'm going by playing both amps next to each other. Something about the Triple was a no-go for me. Maybe the amp had a bad tube or malfunction or something. But it didn't sound the same as the Dual. Just seemed choked and lifeless. This goes for both the Reissue Triple and a Rev G Triple compared to numerous Rev G Duals, Ref F Dual, and Reissue Dual.

That’s fair either you got a great combo in the dual, something off in the triple or you just like the 100w power section better are all possibilities. I just think it extremely unlikely that it is the circuit being somehow changed

 

[FourT6and2]

That’s fair either you got a great combo in the dual, something off in the triple or you just like the 100w power section better are all possibilities. I just think it extremely unlikely that it is the circuit being somehow changed

I agree. I don't think anything in the preamp is different between them.

I have't looked into schematics of them, though. Maybe different NFB, voltages, filtering, etc. Are the transformers the same? OT wound the same? Who knows.

 

[Dadrocks]

My Triple reissue is darker than my Dual Rev G. I tried Mesa square getters again a couple of days ago but I like it better with the JJ's. It sounds thinner and less saturated with the square getters. My Dual is more organic than the reissue but the reissue is really good with a Les Paul and a Dirty Tree. I’ve been running it in stereo with a wide c+ DRG. View attachment 451229

Nice setup! Holy moly! ….do you recommend the triple? What downsides, if any have you noticed or concluded with it? ….if you could only choose one recto, would you do duo or triple?

 

[Racerxrated]

I would need to see hard proof that parts of the circuit were specifically tailored around a certain brand of tube. I think that bit is nonsensical. For that claim to be true, it means Mesa sat there and tweaked resistor and capacitor values throughougt the amp. That seems unlikely.

Having had originals and the Reissue next to each other, I don't see any major component value changes. If you closed your eyes and someone randomly plugged into a Rev F, Rev G, and Reissue, you would be hard pressed to tell the difference. All the nuances here are just that... nuances. The differences are subtle, even though as gear nerds we love to focus on them.

In my experience there are some very noticeable differences between versions of Rectifiers, and Marks. When I plugged into an F Triple for instance; the clarity and 'richness' of the tone was on another level compared to the G Triple I had in the room. Very different and obvious. With a Mark, playing a Mark 3 then a C+ for the first time, the same differences but even at a higher level. Very obvious.

As far as 'designed around a tube' yes I agree....maybe a circuit is designed to not push these newer tubes too hard since they aren't as robust as the older vintage tubes are. Who knows.

 

[Racerxrated]

Know why there are no heavy/brutal clips of the triple reissue that are unreal and overwhelmingly impressive is bc the amp is dry and harmonically flat in comparison to the dual reissue and they don't exist. One is a metal machine, one is not. Why they voiced them this way, who knows?

Dude.

Harmonically flat?? Dry???

You must've got a lemon. You go for different tones than I do. All good; the Triple isn't for you. But harmonically flat? Not in this universe. Remember, I've had 2 F Triples and 1 amazing C Dual. No one would ever say those aren't full of harmonic tones. Yet, I sit here and say this Triple RI has MORE harmonically rich tone than those previous amps. Dry?? Cmon. This ain't a VHT/Fryette. This amp is about as far from dry as one can get.

Bro, I have to now come to the conclusion that you indeed got a lemon out of the box if that Triple was dry/harmonically flat. Mine is better than an F, or a C in that regard.
You now need a do over.

 

[Racerxrated]

My Triple reissue is darker than my Dual Rev G. I tried Mesa square getters again a couple of days ago but I like it better with the JJ's. It sounds thinner and less saturated with the square getters. My Dual is more organic than the reissue but the reissue is really good with a Les Paul and a Dirty Tree. I’ve been running it in stereo with a wide c+ DRG. View attachment 451229

My results were the exact opposite. As usual, getting rid of JJ tubes improved everything. Putting in my Chinese 8th gen gave the amp more highs, and gain. Just plain better. Maybe your tubes are tired? I also put in all KT66s. THAT is a HUGE improvement in every way over the Winged C 34s, and any 6L6 group I had in there. Deeper tighter lows and EL34 type mids....win/win.
Highly recommend trying KT66s in these amps (@Exo-metal )

 

[Exo-metal]

Lemon laws exist, possibly in this case. Move on, it was easy after hearing/playing/owning the Ri dual. I can only speak to my experience. The two rectos that aren't leaving is the Ri dual and rev F.